Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Greetings gents,

Had bike down for a bit (6 months) due to time and other mechanical parts change (back wheel etc...)

Bike starts up no problem cold. After it warms up, it runs like poop. Sometimes I can hear the injectors clicking like crazy after it dies.

No fault codes...

Also, after it warms up ( I cleaned the injectors by running Seafoam through the vacuum lines to the injectors). Unplugging the vacuum line (or lines) while warm does not change the RPM. I’ve had to turn up the idle quite a bit to keep it running. I’ve tried the ol intake leak trick by spraying starting fluid around the boots and vacuum lines but I get no rpm change. I’m at a loss. Unless the injectors are clogged causing erroneous mixtures anyway.

https://youtu.be/Rv0T415Ljy8
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
610 Posts
Greetings gents,

Had bike down for a bit (6 months) due to time and other mechanical parts change (back wheel etc...)

Bike starts up no problem cold. After it warms up, it runs like poop. Sometimes I can hear the injectors clicking like crazy after it dies.

No fault codes...

Also, after it warms up ( I cleaned the injectors by running Seafoam through the vacuum lines to the injectors). Unplugging the vacuum line (or lines) while warm does not change the RPM. I’ve had to turn up the idle quite a bit to keep it running. I’ve tried the ol intake leak trick by spraying starting fluid around the boots and vacuum lines but I get no rpm change. I’m at a loss. Unless the injectors are clogged causing erroneous mixtures anyway.

https://youtu.be/Rv0T415Ljy8
Have an '85 Limited that I have been refurbishing for three and 1/2 years now, do work then ride, repeat as necessary. Once these FI bikes are working well, great bikes.

First thing I would do is set the idle and calibrate the TPS. Next I would suggest balancing the right/left cylinder banks. The idle will be affected so it's a dual calibration.

The vacuum lines go from each cylinder bank up to the PB sensors (MAP). I would put a vacuum gauge on each side and check the vacuum. If the system is working correctly you will draw a good vacuum. The reed valves work quite well and draw a lot of air from the idle air control system for cold starts, and to provide a source of air for the cylinders when the throttle is shut fully such as when decelerating.

If you disconnect one PB sensor vacuum line at a time, there will be no change in the engine operation. Disconnect both at the same time and there will be an issue. The ECU uses the PB sensor signal to assist in engine idle and engine performance below approximately 3000 RPM.

If you don't have the service manuals for your bike, would recommend getting a copy.

Troubleshooting these older FI bikes without the manuals is not an easy task.

No error codes is good. The injectors on these FI bikes are quite robust. Had mine cleaned and flow tested a while back, before cleaning flowed at 64 CC/min, after cleaning 66 cc/min. Shouldn't need to run seafoam or other products through the injectors.

The fuel system light, if it comes on is the equivalent of a check engine light. Had this light come on on another '85 LTD that I put on the road and have subsequently sold. Thought it was the fuel system, but there is nothing on the fuel system to trigger this warning light. Did some other tests such as leaving the air temp sensor disconnected, and took the TPS out of calibration, fuel system light came on.

Best of luck. Cheers
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
24,394 Posts
( I cleaned the injectors by running Seafoam through the vacuum lines to the injectors).
You cannot clean injectors through the vacuum lines, cleaner has to be pumped through them under pressure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
( I cleaned the injectors by running Seafoam through the vacuum lines to the injectors).
You cannot clean injectors through the vacuum lines, cleaner has to be pumped through them under pressure.
You are correct sir. I was under the impression that the vacuum check lines provided air to the injectors for a better atomization (Too old of a system for that).

Seems to run worse with increased oil temperatures/higher overall engine temps. (Operating temp).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Have an '85 Limited that I have been refurbishing for three and 1/2 years now, do work then ride, repeat as necessary. Once these FI bikes are working well, great bikes.

First thing I would do is set the idle and calibrate the TPS. Next I would suggest balancing the right/left cylinder banks. The idle will be affected so it's a dual calibration.

The vacuum lines go from each cylinder bank up to the PB sensors (MAP). I would put a vacuum gauge on each side and check the vacuum. If the system is working correctly you will draw a good vacuum. The reed valves work quite well and draw a lot of air from the idle air control system for cold starts, and to provide a source of air for the cylinders when the throttle is shut fully such as when decelerating.

If you disconnect one PB sensor vacuum line at a time, there will be no change in the engine operation. Disconnect both at the same time and there will be an issue. The ECU uses the PB sensor signal to assist in engine idle and engine performance below approximately 3000 RPM.

If you don't have the service manuals for your bike, would recommend getting a copy.

Troubleshooting these older FI bikes without the manuals is not an easy task.

No error codes is good. The injectors on these FI bikes are quite robust. Had mine cleaned and flow tested a while back, before cleaning flowed at 64 CC/min, after cleaning 66 cc/min. Shouldn't need to run seafoam or other products through the injectors.

The fuel system light, if it comes on is the equivalent of a check engine light. Had this light come on on another '85 LTD that I put on the road and have subsequently sold. Thought it was the fuel system, but there is nothing on the fuel system to trigger this warning light. Did some other tests such as leaving the air temp sensor disconnected, and took the TPS out of calibration, fuel system light came on.

Best of luck. Cheers
I don’t have a service manual besides the Haynes manual from amazon.

I don’t know where the TPS is. I looked for it.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
57,482 Posts
You are correct sir. I was under the impression that the vacuum check lines provided air to the injectors for a better atomization (Too old of a system for that).

Seems to run worse with increased oil temperatures/higher overall engine temps. (Operating temp).

sent you a PM ref a manual for that bike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
610 Posts
I think Dennis made a comment a while back regarding these FI bikes in that he wouldn't put fuel in one without having the manuals - good advice. PM sent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
So, I did a ride this morning to troubleshoot. It was running horribly rough (like a vacuum line is open on both sides). And she was smoking like something fierce.

After a mile or so the “Fuel System” light came on and the idle came up to 1800 or so and it ran wayyy better. I’d love to understand more on how this system works. Of course after turning the bike off and back on again clears the message and the idle drops back down to around 800 rpm and running rough sometimes dieing and starting back up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Update,

After running around this morning, letting it cool down to atmospheric temperature then running it again, it is running way better but extremely rich. I think a sensor or a vacuum tube isn’t right.

Reading the book I have reads to clean the throttle valve and sync every 8k miles just like carb syncing...
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
Black smoke, white smoke, blue smoke. Once you get the manual, locate the pressure regulator. Check the vacuum line to it. Inspect the line for fuel. The pressure regulator may be ruptured allowing fuel into the intake un-metered. Check the fuel pressure if you have the tools available. Generally speaking, removing the vacuum hose from the regulator will increase fuel pressure @10psi. Pull the hose and plug it with your finger. Note the change in rpm. Increase means your running lean. Decrease would indicate mixture was already close to correct. Leaving the vacuum line disconnected during this test will speed up the engine. More fuel. More air.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
After a mile or so the “Fuel System” light came on and the idle came up to 1800 or so and it ran wayyy better. Of course after turning the bike off and back on again clears the message and the idle drops back down to around 800 rpm and running rough sometimes dieing and starting back up.
Hello! The light comes on and it runs better. This indicates the ECM saw the malfunction and went into fail-safe mode. (Fixed values) Turning it off erased the learning and it ran like crap again.
Check the code sheet for inputs that cause locked values. You can ignore the ones that "stop" ignition or fuel signals.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
So... I’m not really sure what’s going on anymore... I checked everything I know to check and put it back together. Ran it for a bit and the idle slowly came up to 2400rpm and I adjusted it down to spec (1000 +- 50). The thing is purring like a kitten for now...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Update,

Turns out that seafoam in the gas saved me a heartache of extraneous and unnecessary maintenance. This thing is purring like a kitten now. The link below is a video of the idle (a little low) smooth. After pouring half a can of Seafoam, 3/4 of a big bottle of Marvel and a full bottle of Mechanic in a Bottle on around 1/2-3/4 tank of gas and running it hard and shutting it down till it cooled completely then running it again hard. The brief ride this evening was smooth and powerful. The acceleration was smooth and absolutely no hiccups at idle or high RPM (5-5500). Not sure what exactly cured it but it’s good now.

https://youtu.be/UfP3bv6Hkzs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Black smoke, white smoke, blue smoke. Once you get the manual, locate the pressure regulator. Check the vacuum line to it. Inspect the line for fuel. The pressure regulator may be ruptured allowing fuel into the intake un-metered. Check the fuel pressure if you have the tools available. Generally speaking, removing the vacuum hose from the regulator will increase fuel pressure @10psi. Pull the hose and plug it with your finger. Note the change in rpm. Increase means your running lean. Decrease would indicate mixture was already close to correct. Leaving the vacuum line disconnected during this test will speed up the engine. More fuel. More air.
I’m still interested to see the results of this test and maybe check the manifold vacuum balance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
610 Posts
Have to ask. How did you adjust the idle. Did you use the idle screw that is on the throttle linkage midway between the right left cylinder bank, or the screw under the CFI cover on the right cylinder bank?

Looked at the YouTube and the engine does sound good. Noticed you have the dash on the oil temp/pressure settings as well. I'd bring the idle closer to 1000.

Cheers
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top