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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, with the help of Virgilmobile, I was able to figure out my turn signal problem so I decided to start working on my reverse issue early. Please note that I have converted my 92 Interstate to an Aspencade. I have all the harnesses, relays, sensors etc. switched over so there are no issues with missing components. Here is what is going on with it:

I start the engine while in neutral. I engage reverse by pulling up on the handle. The neutral light goes out and the reverse light lights up. I push in the start button and I can hear the starter making a whirring noise like its spinning but no wheel movement. While the starter is spinning, the engine idles down. I then spun the rear wheel and it is locked in place and will not move while reverse is engaged. When disengaging the reverse handle, the rear wheel moves free again. So it appears that the system is working and that it is not an electrical problem but instead a mechanical problem. As a side note (likely unrelated to the reverse issue) when I turn the ignition off with the key, the engine keeps running. It only shuts off with the on/off switch. Where do I begin with the reverse issue and what would cause my engine to continue running after turning off the key? Thanks in advance for all who help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I aligned the marks for the reverse according to the service manual and the rear wheel still doesn't move when I press the start button while the reverse lever is engaged. I have a question. When the reverse is not engaged, how freely should the back wheel spin? Should it A. spin easily like wheel of fortune and keep spinning after you spin and let go or should it B. be a little bit difficult to turn and not spin freely when you let go, like there's some friction there? Because mine spins like B. and I'm wondering if that would cause it not to move when pushing start. I have brand new pads on the rear caliper and they havent been broken in yet. I have never had reverse on a bike before so I don't know how things are supposed to be. Hope someone out there has a solution. This feature was my primary motivation to convert to an Aspencade. That and cruise control.
 

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Was this an OEM engine with reverse or did you convert the Interstate engine.
 

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I have two thoughts . First I dont know how you made/accomplished this upgrade or how complete your parts swap is .
In looking up 92 I and 92 A starter motors I find different part numbers .
92I # 31200-MW5-871
92A# 31200-MT8-018
Is it possible your using the Interstate stater motor ?

Second thought .Is it possible you have a broken reverse idler gear ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have two thoughts . First I dont know how you made/accomplished this upgrade or how complete your parts swap is .
In looking up 92 I and 92 A starter motors I find different part numbers .
92I # 31200-MW5-871
92A# 31200-MT8-018
Is it possible your using the Interstate stater motor ?

Second thought .Is it possible you have a broken reverse idler gear ?
No it's an Aspencade starter. The Interstate starter does not have the gear to engage the reverse gear in the motor so I swapped it out. As for broken reverse idler gear, God I hope not. But with the engine I put in it, I would highly doubt it. It was out of a wrecked 99 Aspencade with under 6000 miles on it. And the swap is very complete. I could fill an entire page listing everything I had to swap out to make this happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Here is my swap list from memory

- Aspencade engine
- Aspencade starter
- Aspencade main, front and rear harnesses
- Aspencade main ECU
- reverse & cruise control units
- reverse relays, resistors, diode & solenoid
- reverse cables, mounts and handle
- gauge cluster with reverse & cruise lights
- Aspencade carburetor
- SE left and right control switch assemblies
- cruise throttle cancel, cruise clutch cancel, cruise front & rear brake cancel switches
- cruise accumulator
- cruise actuator
- turn signal cancel unit (on its way)

I'm sure that I'm missing something but this is what I can remember and all these items are installed.
 

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Could be a linkage problem (misrouted or backward someplace) here is a pic of what one looks like in forward.
 

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As for broken reverse idler gear, God I hope not. But with the engine I put in it, I would highly doubt it.
This is more common than you think. Most times they get broken when the starter gets installed.

The starter gets misaligned during install, the teeth do not mesh properly and then people start to snug down the bolts and then “snap” the idler gear. Most times they don’t even know it or they think the starter is a “snug” fit and they expect the bolts to force it into place.

For this particular part of your problems, I would remove the starter and inspect the gear. You can see it through the opening. Just keep rotating it with your finger until you know it’s gone around at least once.

Tim.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Could be a linkage problem (misrouted or backward someplace) here is a pic of what one looks like in forward.
Great hi res image. Thanks. I assume when you say in forward, you mean with the reverse disengaged. Can you show me a pic with it in the other direction so I can see where your marks line up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is more common than you think. Most times they get broken when the starter gets installed.

The starter gets misaligned during install, the teeth do not mesh properly and then people start to snug down the bolts and then “snap” the idler gear. Most times they don’t even know it or they think the starter is a “snug” fit and they expect the bolts to force it into place.

For this particular part of your problems, I would remove the starter and inspect the gear. You can see it through the opening. Just keep rotating it with your finger until you know it’s gone around at least once.

Tim.
Okay, I will pull the starter tomorrow and rotate the gear and inspect the teeth as you suggested. Hopefully this isn't the issue but it certainly needs to be ruled in or out. I installed the starter myself and made certain that it fit snug against the block before tightening. Similar to the precautions I take when installing a transmission and torque converter so as to not smash the tranny pump with the torque converter when I draw the tranny to the engine. But you never know...the prevous owner may have mucked it up at some point. Thanks a bunch for the advice. I'll report my findings once Ive inspected the teeth.
 

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As a side note (likely unrelated to the reverse issue) when I turn the ignition off with the key, the engine keeps running. It only shuts off with the on/off switch. Where do I begin with the reverse issue and what would cause my engine to continue running after turning off the key? Thanks in advance for all who help.
Something wired wrong or a diode missing (backfeeding). You do have the reverse/start diodes installed?

To help isolate the problem take an inventory of which fuses are hot with key off and again with key on. Start bike and compare for any change in power to fuses.

With engine running and key off pull one fuse and replace at a time, you are looking for one fuse that will kill engine.

Do not stop with the first one which kills engine, do them all.

It will narrow down or eliminate the problem to a particular circuit(s).

If no results with any of the fuses in box try main fuse at relay A. (20/30A IIRC)

You may need to compare results (wiring) to a known good 15.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This is more common than you think. Most times they get broken when the starter gets installed.

The starter gets misaligned during install, the teeth do not mesh properly and then people start to snug down the bolts and then “snap” the idler gear. Most times they don’t even know it or they think the starter is a “snug” fit and they expect the bolts to force it into place.

For this particular part of your problems, I would remove the starter and inspect the gear. You can see it through the opening. Just keep rotating it with your finger until you know it’s gone around at least once.

Tim.
Well Tim, you were right on the money. My worse fear came true. The damn gear is broken! Damn it all to hell!!! :brokedown: So I assume that the only way to fix it is to pull the engine?
 

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Hey Kevin,

I am really really sorry to hear that.

To my knowledge the only way to get at it is to remove the engine. Unfortunately, you have no choice even if you say “I will do without the reverse”. Now you have a chunk of a gear sitting at the bottom of the engine. You don’t want that traveling around inside.

When I put my engine in I made sure that I had the engine in “Reverse” and my son rotated the rear tire back and forth just a little. I then felt the starter “seat” properly while it was still in my hand. I was over cautious because I know how easy it is to destroy that gear. A lot more people with a lot more experience then me have busted them.

The gear is not that expensive… you’re only really loosing time. But wow… what a kick in the old sack!!!:lash:

Good Luck!

Tim.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Something wired wrong or a diode missing (backfeeding). You do have the reverse/start diodes installed?

To help isolate the problem take an inventory of which fuses are hot with key off and again with key on. Start bike and compare for any change in power to fuses.

With engine running and key off pull one fuse and replace at a time, you are looking for one fuse that will kill engine.

Do not stop with the first one which kills engine, do them all.

It will narrow down or eliminate the problem to a particular circuit(s).

If no results with any of the fuses in box try main fuse at relay A. (20/30A IIRC)

You may need to compare results (wiring) to a known good 15.
If I pull the single wire that is connected to the alternator (blk/grn) the engine turns off with the key as it should. Reconnect it and the problem returns.
 

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With it running and key turned off does anything shut off. Running lights, Head light, Horn, Dash gauges or Dash warning lights, radio, brake lights.

Pulling fuse 2 or relay 8 should also shut it down, does it.
 

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Does the charging system work?

Try removing the white charging wire from battery post of alternator and the little wires to completely remove alt from system. Start it up and see if the problem is still there.

Be careful removing white wire it is hot at all times and don't short anything or let it touch ground. Put some elec tape over wire terminal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
With it running and key turned off does anything shut off. Running lights, Head light, Horn, Dash gauges or Dash warning lights, radio, brake lights.

Pulling fuse 2 or relay 8 should also shut it down, does it.
No, with it running, after turning off the key, everything stays on and engine stays running which leads me to believe that the alternator is back feeding and running the bike. I will try pulling fuse 2 and relay 8 one at a time and tell you what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Does the charging system work?

Try removing the white charging wire from battery post of alternator and the little wires to completely remove alt from system. Start it up and see if the problem is still there.

Be careful removing white wire it is hot at all times and don't short anything or let it touch ground. Put some elec tape over wire terminal.
I will try this too and let you know.
 

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The more info you got about a wiring problem the easier it is to locate.

Something could be ON when it should be OFF. Do a mA draw test on battery with key off. And does the charging system work?
 
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