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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is what he emailed me this morning. He's got a few issues with replacing the headgaskets. Its to the point I'm not sure I can be of much help to him without being in garage. His is an 83 Aspy.

I have taken one head off at a time right then left,I set the cams at tdc left and right cam gear with up and black marks aligned at side.when removing right side it turned slightly and valves were both closed when I removed head.then I did left side after removing head intake (I think) was open.so I turned valves until both were closed,so I could clean them.So when trying to replace timing belts right side I was able to roll cam back to up and black mark as when I started.Left side was more rotated so when I tried to rotate cam It felt like it was stuck so I backed off and turned tdc until I could turn left cam to up and black mark.So with timing belts back on I can only turn crank about a 1/3 or less before what I thought was piston against valve.
All this is done with a wrench so I didn't pull hard enough to bend valves.Can I get this aligned without removing heads again?Also will # 1 and #2 piston both be at tdc?

I helped another friend with belts on his 83, but it was at my house, not over the phone. I know all these are interference motors, so I told him (as I was told doing my 1500 the first time) to turn it over by hand two full turns to make sure nothing hits (i.e. valves into pistons). Hopefully some of you gearheads out there can offer some assistance. Thanks in advance...
 

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The only thing I see in that is if he failed to turn the crank back to TDC after getting the left cam back on the mark. If the crank is on TDC and both cams are on their marks it should work. Have him start over by removing the belts, turn the crank back off TDC 45* or so then line up the cam marks, turn the crank back to TDC and put the belts on. The right cam will have to be held in place as it will try to rotate some.
 

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Well if he set the motor at TDC 1 mark before removing the heads, and is still there, then he should be able to set the heads back on in proper position, right side #1 at TDC, and cam pulley at black mark at "up" at 12:00, Left side set pulley set at "up" at 12:00 and be good to go. His description was kinda vague on that.

If he set the heads w/o doing that, then it's either remove the heads and will need new head gaskets to reset properly or remove the cams(so all valves are closed to sin the motor into position,(to save the head gaskets), then set the cams in proper place after motor is at TDC 1 mark, then tighten everything up to specs and double spin the motor rotations to check for clear running of valve timing. (doing it this way may require the spark plug wires swapped if the motor was on #2 TDC and not #1 TDC as the timing of the firing would be off 180 deg and he would just get back firing instead of running motor)
 

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I would get a service manual and start from scratch following the manual. You can turn the motor or cam anytime safely as long as you don't force it. Turn the crank until you feel the piston contact the valve. Rotate each cam in one direction or another until you get all the marks aligned. Some service manual explain a "sequence" to rotate the cams and crank with out any contact but there is no harm if you don't force anything. It just takes some patience and futzing.

So to answer your question, no, you do not have to take the heads off again to get everything in phase. Yes when one is at TDC so is two. When one is on TDC compression two is on TDC exhaust stroke. :)
 

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IIRC, if you set the crank 90 degrees off of TDC (either pair) all the pistions will be halfway down in the cylinders and there will be room for the valves to open if you need to spin the cams without the belts on. It has been a while scence I have had a head off, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Just remember to remove the sparkplugs.


Bill
 

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As Dave said 45 degree not 90 as the rear cylinders would be contacting at TDC. Spark plugs out so he can turn with wrench and not loosen the bolt.
I too had forgotten that.
 

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The heads don't need to come off again ( even if you have interference now). Reread what Dave has said.

If you really don't know where you are, loosen all of the valve adjustment screws (very loose), remove the belts... Rotate the crank to TDC... Rotate the cams to align... Reinstall belts... Rotate by hand and readjust valves... This will take some time, but the heads do not need to be removed.
 

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As Dave said 45 degree not 90 as the rear cylinders would be contacting at TDC. Spark plugs out so he can turn with wrench and not loosen the bolt.
I too had forgotten that.
45 off tdc is probibly enough, but turning the crank 90 will center all the pistons in the bores, and in cases like this I prefer the 'extra' room.

Bill
 

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45 off tdc is probibly enough, but turning the crank 90 will center all the pistons in the bores, and in cases like this I prefer the 'extra' room.

Bill
Since the valves only protrude about 1/4" into the cylinder when fully open 45* is plenty and then some.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks fellers. I sent him the link to this thread, and he FB'd me today saying he got it together, and everything freely turns but still wont start. He's thinking he may still be a tic off on the timing.
 

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It would still start even if the cam timing was off a tooth. If everything was put back together right it should start like it did before pulling the heads. It is extremely easy to bend valves, does it have compression?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'll find out compression, spark, fuel...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Update: He got it running, he said that he's had it running now for about 30 minutes, fan cycles on/off like normal. The one issue he has is it still smokes, not a lot, but out both sides. He says its not thick, kinda like a car on a cold morning, but it lingers around the shop. He's gonna try to find a compression tester. I havent seen one with the head off. Are there water jackets between the cylinders that may trickle into the combustion chamber? Thanks peeps...
 

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Yes there are water jackets. The cylinders are moated with water and ports into the heads. And crossover tube on top of each head flows it back to the thermostat.

If there was water or oil in the headers that were not cleaned out it will smoke from that until burned out.
 
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