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41 years ago i had to get my M endorsement the day I was schedualed to take the test on my 1200 shovel harley. it began to rain and then sleet. took my written test then the instructor said can you drive on that track I said I rode here didnt I she stood out in the sleet and watched me do the corse. I passed. she said why didnt you reschudale your test and I replied I didnt start out in this when I left home but once i got caught in it why turn back she smiled and said are you ridin it home. I look back on it sometimes and wonder what her reply would have been if i had said no.She was a very young pretty red Head but thats another story. If you take the test on your bike and fail and its not you or the bike then the corse needs to be adjusted accordingly and until its Challenged it will never be changed.I will always disagree with the smaller bike safety corse.its ok to learn how to ride on a smaller bike not saying that. but when it comes to the real deal and you are beeing givin your M indorsement. Its a darn shame it isnt on the bike that you hit the street with.and I still say it should be mandated that if you take the rider safety corse to get your M endorsement it should be limited to that weight class and CC you can hit the street with.thats the way it was in the 60 to early 70 for kids getting there first bike.

and I should add Big kids and Little ones.
 

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Shut up, Junior, or I'll beat you with my cane!!!

;)
 

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jeffy1500 wrote:
Thanks to everyone for the input! I'm going to go measure the circle diameter and configuration just for anyone's interest tomorrow. A Harley friend threw a curve at me. He said how can you stay within the lines when you can't see the front tire. He had a point. I'll measure the distance between the lines and report back.
Armo: waiting for you to help me do do a carb rebuild and sync! lol!:raspberry:
I would be very interested to find out. I like to do a lot of slow speed practice, and spend a lot of time practicing my circles and eights. So I would like to put myself to the test and see if all that practice would get me into circle that small.

To be quite honest, without knowing, I think if I did the smallest circle I can it might be small enough, but even ifit would, I still wonder if my positional awareness would be good enough to stay inside a fixed circle. I don't know the dimensions, but if the circle were 17 feet, even if I could make a 16 foot circle, I would still have to stay dead center, with only 6 inches to spare all the way around. Doing a 16 foot circle would be useless if you were 7 inches off center.

I have one trick I use to shrink my circles down. I only do it for fun as I have never actually found a practical use for it. I can lean the bike way over and scrape the peg, but I'm not sitting on the seat anymore. I'm sitting on the side cover... almost, I'm actually on the side of the seat. The bike makes nice tight circles, but as I said,it doesn't serve any practical purposes. So I wonder if that would get me inside the California test circle.
 

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Wolfman wrote:
I have one trick I use to shrink my circles down. I only do it for fun as I have never actually found a practical use for it. I can lean the bike way over and scrape the peg, but I'm not sitting on the seat anymore. I'm sitting on the side cover... almost, I'm actually on the side of the seat. The bike makes nice tight circles, but as I said,it doesn't serve any practical purposes. So I wonder if that would get me inside the California test circle.
U-turns need you to ride a tight circle sometimes.

Counterleaning a U-turn is how it's done.
 

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hey, let's start a new club, for "old-wings" only , call it the "Geratol for lunch-bunch" !
 

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Ok, went out to the Clovis, Ca. DMV M/C testing area this AM and measured and photographed the circle. Outside diameter was 27ft. The lane between lines is 20 inches wide. The lines are 4 inches wide. I didnt bother to measure the straight approach but it is probably 40 feet long. I wish I would have taken someone to stand in the center of the circle to give the picture perspective. The pic makes the circle look larger from the angle I took it. Remember, the inside diameter would be 25 feet.
:ROFL:
 

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Ok, I could do 25 feet. I've never actually measured my circles. But I was talking to a cop one day and he told me that they train to do 17 foot u-turns. I told him that I go to parking lots and try to do a u-turn inside the width of 2 parking spaces. He told me that was 17 feet (8.5 feet each). I'm sure that some are a little wider than others, but still it should be less than 25 feet anyway.


I was not understanding the nature of this test. The real problem would be staying between the lines. I was thinking that it was one circle and you had to stay inside. Staying between the two circles is a whole different problem.


Ok, I have a new challenge for myself. I have to go check our local DMV's and see if they have similar circles. Either that or my neighbors are going to hate me, because I might have to paint circles on the street out front.


:badgrin:
 

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Even better, I see the dirt bikers hauling down the straight away, and sticking there foot out and wipping around in about 1/2 second.

:ROFL::cheesygrin::ssshh::D





Whoops, that is right... can't put you foot down.:badgrin:



In WA, they made us do a U turn and weave the cones. No 360.
 

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Just remember your tires can't touch any of the lines.. Just looking a the approach it's nearly impossible to start with a big bike..

By the way if you watch the DMV video Carl put up, the guy riding that small bike was all over the lines and into the center with his back wheel.......................
 

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In 1973 in PA had to start by riding into a small parking space that was curbed on three sides and had to do a circle 8 twice without touching down my feet. Had to stop before exit, use turn signal, look both ways, then pull out to a stop sign. Use right turn signal, look both ways, and then proceed to the right and doing a"U" turn into serpintine area. Once through the serpinitne did another "U" turn and back to the same stop sign. Left turn signal, look both ways, then proceed to the parking area for grading. Passed, no sweat. Of course, I was a bit younger, and as we all know, you are invincible when you are young. Failure or difficulty never crossed my mind.:waving:
 

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Looking at the approach it would be impossible on any bike to inter or exit that circle without hitting a white line.
 

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Yep, that is why the instructor said that only the front tire had to stay within the lines.:cheeky1:Either you guys did not have the sound on or missed that part:ROFL:
 

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It really looks pretty easy. When I did the survival course put on by the Edmund, OK motorcycle police, we did pretty much the same serpentine course and much tighter u turns. The diameter on the u-turn area was 18 feet. I had very few problems with my 1100i. When I got my M endorsement in CA in 79 or 80 in San Clemente, the test was very easy. It was a crowded parking lot with no test markings. He had me ride in a circle within the parking lot and ride the length of the parking lot shifting up and down, turn around and do the same coming Yo a stop in front of him. He said "you've been riding awhile" or some such and passed me. Later, when I got my NC drivers license, I didn't notice they dropped the M endorsement. When I went back to get it later, they asked if I'd been riding before 1974. I said yes and they took my $10 and gave me the endorsement.
 

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correct, only the front tire, is all that matters.
I passed it using a full dress BMW touring bike
 

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I can see where the difficulty would come as someone else mentioned above, you can't see your front wheel.

I was at a poker run once where they had some skills riding events, such as a slow race and such. One of the tests they did was you had to pull up to a white line and stop with your front tire on the white line. The person that stopped their wing closest to the white line won. I discovered that I actually have no idea where my front tire is. I know, it sounds silly, but you know what I mean. I wasn't even close to having my front tire on the white line. It's not a hard skill, but if you've never learned it before and never practiced it, it doesn't just come naturally.

In this case, keeping the front tire between the two lines when you don't really know where your front tire is could be a challenge. Some practice ahead of time would be in order. And you can't even practice alone, because you can't see if you were successful or not. You need someone to tell you.

It could be interesting to pass this test in awing.
 

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Some of us here are old, and some of us will be lucky to get that way.:raspberry:
 
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