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Ok After bragging about not have the usual carb problems turns out i do have some. I have had the carbs off twice and believe me there clean!! and the bike is running better then it ever has sense i got it.....But. The Choke does not work now. It will make it so rich it will flood the engine. If i feather it when cold the max rpm's will reach 1000. If i try to release the choke any or apply more it just dies. I have to hold the throttle open to get it to warm up enough to run. I have synced the carbs and there so close i cant get them any better and i would dare anyone else to get them closer. It does seem like one is a little lagging behind the rest when you open the throttle under a load?. The air cutoff valve appears to be fine. The little diaphragm is not tore and there are no holes in it. I Think the problem is in the idle air adjustment. If i do it like the book says there out at 2 turns but it runs like crap. If i do it by ear it runs way better and idles smother but the air bleeds are out at 2 1/2 turns. So any ideas?

Pat
 

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Pat, the feeling around here seems to be that the 2- 2 1/2 turns is sort of a general reference number. Haven't checked for a while cause I'm lazy, but mine were set right around 3 turns. Are you sure that the choke is not binding... Hang in there, with any luck "Twisty" will jump in, he's the carb guy in my opinion.
 

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last carbs I really toyed with were on a 65 chevy, but I always went with the adjust till you feel it runs right approach, not the cook-book approach. is the choke binding up?

on '78 1000s sometimes there is a lag in the carberation because of the slide mechnism that you can take out with the tops removed. cleaning this may help
 

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Everything is working free. All 4 little valves are moving in and out just fine it looks like to me. It almost seems like the idle is on the rich side so when i apply the choke it just makes it way to rich but im unsure.

Pat
 

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Does the bike behave okay once warmed up including idling normally and accelerating okay? Have you tried to lean it up with the bleed screws?
 

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Originally the air bleeds were out 1 1/2 turns but the bike had a pretty good hesitation,But the choke worked fine so maybe tomorrow i will try that. I have them out at 2 1/2 now and it runs and idles fairly well but not perfect when warm with no hesitation.

I have noticed that a new air cut off valve comes with a little o ring when i took mine apart to check it out i could not find any o ring might be a clue?

Pat
 

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PatinIdaho wrote:
Originally the air bleeds were out 1 1/2 turns but the bike had a pretty good hesitation,But the choke worked fine so maybe tomorrow i will try that. I have them out at 2 1/2 now and it runs and idles fairly well but not perfect when warm with no hesitation.

I have noticed that a new air cut off valve comes with a little o ring when i took mine apart to check it out i could not find any o ring might be a clue?
Pat, on most of the Kehin slide carbs I have worked on, if the choke (enrichener) has little effect on starting & gives a rich condition when on I have had the pilot needles set way too rich.

On my current 1200 Wing (I know, it has slightly different carbs than yours) I have had to shim the slide needles up a little with thin washers to get that off-idle hesitation out without over-richening the pilot settings.

Over-rich pilot screw settings will really lower your miles per gallon.

Twisty
 

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I tried the little washers and they seemed to have little effect.....But that was before i had the carbs off and cleaned them. After i had them off i removed the little washers thinking if everything is working right i should not need them. Im gonna try going back to 1 1/2 turns back out and put the little washers back in then a resync and see what happens. Be back in a few hours with the results.

Pat
 

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Ok Took it apart and installed the little washers. Could only find 23thou thick ones though. Adjusted the air bleeds out to 1 1/2 turns and re synced the carbs. Running the bike around here it seems to be lots better. The choke works again(from cold), the idle seems to be good and there is no hesitation. Now i will ride it to work tonight and well see if all stays well as it alwas seems to run great around here but after 30 miles to work it's not.

Pat
 

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At least it sounds like you're closing in on the problem. It's good to hear the blow by blow problem solving on this forum,as more problems are solved with the answers posted, we are all going to be Goldwing geniuses!
 

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Here is another blow by blow report:action: After riding to work the hesitation seems to be gone....BUT it is out of sync again. It seems to take me about 4 days of syncing to get it right. I can get it perfect in the shop. Ride to work and back it will be a little off.

The choke works a little better but not right still with the air bleeds 1 1/2 turns out. Im gonna try going to try turning them in a little more maybe 1/4 turn at a time and see what happens. So be back latter with another report.

Pat
 

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You're heading in the right direction, just needs some more tweaks!:clapper:
 

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PatinIdaho wrote:
Here is another blow by blow report:action: After riding to work the hesitation seems to be gone....BUT it is out of sync again. It seems to take me about 4 days of syncing to get it right. I can get it perfect in the shop. Ride to work and back it will be a little off.

The choke works a little better but not right still with the air bleeds 1 1/2 turns out. Im gonna try going to try turning them in a little more maybe 1/4 turn at a time and see what happens. So be back latter with another report.
Pat, why do you say it's out of sync again? If you are using a vacuum gauge or balance sticks be sure you are always checking at the same engine temperature & idle speed setting.

If you are seeing a drastic change after each usage then suspect a vacuum leak or worn throttle plates, orworn throttle shafts. You could even have worn carb to carb linkage or sticking linkage. It doesn't even have to be the carbs, it could be a leaking engine valve or some debris in the air filter blocking one of the intake runners (or anything that changes the amount of air drawn througha carb).

Twisty
 

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I thought of the woren linkage and plates but i looked at them the last time it was apart and all seems fine with no ware i could notice.

When i have the mercury gauges on it i can get them almost to a flat line on all 4 but i rev it up and when it returns to idle there off a little bit again. So maybe i need to look at the linkage again although im sure i wont find anything out of the ordinary.

When you mess with the airbleeds do you get more or less air turning them in?

Mine are at 1 1/2 turns out at the moment and man the exaust will burn your eyes so i think screwing them out gives you more air? but i dunno for sure.

Pat
 

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PatinIdaho wrote:
I thought of the woren linkage and plates but i looked at them the last time it was apart and all seems fine with no ware i could notice.

When i have the mercury gauges on it i can get them almost to a flat line on all 4 but i rev it up and when it returns to idle there off a little bit again. So maybe i need to look at the linkage again although im sure i wont find anything out of the ordinary.

When you mess with the airbleeds do you get more or less air turning them in?

Mine are at 1 1/2 turns out at the moment and man the exaust will burn your eyes so i think screwing them out gives you more air? but i dunno for sure.
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Pat, I presume by airbleeds you mean the pilot needles? If so, in= leaner & out= richer. Not all Kehin carbs are the same though, it depends on what side of the throttle plate the screws are on. Yours are-- in= lean,, out = rich. To set those pilot needles correctly you really should do an idle drop setting, just setting them all the same isn't always correct (probably close though)..


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Mine are at 1 1/2 turns out at the moment and man the exhaust will burn your eyes so i think screwing them out gives you more air? but i dunno for sure.

That seems to be somewhat normal on some of those older Wings. As far as I can tell. It might have something to do with the pulse air injected into the exhaust leaning the exhaust after-burn.

Twisty
 

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Thanks for the help guys.

I think the problem with the sync is the little springs that hold the screws turning the screws a little bit back in the opposite direction. Im wondering if i can have a bad air cutoff valve? There is no backfiring when decelerating and i could see no signs of ware. To me thats a long shot though at this point. I think its just a matter of tuning and i cant believe it's giving me this PITA.

I'll go do the idle drop setting again and be back later.

Pat
 

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I have found when syncing carbsthat i have to go a LITTLE past where i think it should be then turn it back a hair. The closer i get the Pilot needles the easier it seems to be to get it in to sync. I cant do a real idle drop test as my tach only reads x100 But with the pilot needles out 3 turns it seems once again to be running sweet in the garage and idling almost dead smooth. Exhaust does not burn my eyes anymore. I'll have to wait till it cools off to try the choke but i suspect that if it works better then maybe i need to go out 3 1/2 turns but i'll have to wait and see.

Pat
 

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If the springs are making the valves spring back a bit, turn them over.
 

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Well i cant seem to keep it in sync. Something must be wrong that i can not find and im out of ideas. I am getting pinging now also under part throttle accelerating around 3k rpm 5th gear. The linkage is all tight like it should be with nothing waren. The idle will change rpm every 15 minutes. I can set it to 950 ride to work it will be 1100. Adjust to 950 set over night and ride home idle will be 600I think i need to have someone else look at it. The good news is with the Pilot needles 3 turns out the choke does work again and there is no hesitation at any rpm. Could the washers i put under the main needles be the problem?. They are 23 thousands thick and they are sitting flat in the needle holder as they should be.I can not believe with the experience i have i can not figure this thing out. I would HATE to take it to honda and have them fix it just to get 20 miles down the road and have it do the same thing because they wont do anything that i have not tried and i dont have that kinda cash sitting around.

Pat
 

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PatinIdaho wrote:
Well i cant seem to keep it in sync. Something must be wrong that i can not find and im out of ideas. I am getting pinging now also under part throttle accelerating around 3k rpm 5th gear. The linkage is all tight like it should be with nothing waren. The idle will change rpm every 15 minutes. I can set it to 950 ride to work it will be 1100. Adjust to 950 set over night and ride home idle will be 600I think i need to have someone else look at it. The good news is with the Pilot needles 3 turns out the choke does work again and there is no hesitation at any rpm. Could the washers i put under the main needles be the problem?. They are 23 thousands thick and they are sitting flat in the needle holder as they should be.I can not believe with the experience i have i can not figure this thing out. I would HATE to take it to honda and have them fix it just to get 20 miles down the road and have it do the same thing because they wont do anything that i have not tried and i dont have that kinda cash sitting around.

Pat
Pat, I doubt those washers are the problem as the needles don't do anything at idle & I have been running washers for over 5000 miles now &my idle returns perfectly.

Make darn sure your air cut-off valve is functioning as that can have a big effect on idle speed & quality.

Also make sure you don't have a sticking carb slide as that can adversely effect the idle speed & quality.

Can you catch the cylinder that is causing the problem by watching the balance gauges. The odd cylinder should show a different vacuum reading than the others. If all the same suspect a tight throttle cable or linkage problem. I know my personal 1200 will change RPM's if I turn the handlebars all the way right as that loads the throttle cables differently.

Twisty
 
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