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My 77 with the single carb has a pinging under hard acceleration.Nothing audible under normal acceleration.

The timing was checked and triple checked.Spark plug gaps good and excellent spark from the Accel coils.I thought maybe the spark was too good.In all my years of wrenching Ive never seen such hearty spark on all four plugs.I was concerned that its too good and burning the old lead off the pistons causing pre-ignition.



First chemical I tried was Amsoil power foam.It ran better but still the pinging remained.

Then I tried an old trick with steam ,using an old Italian Espresso machine,forcing the steam down into the carb throat.



That seamed to yield some blue smoke out of the right side exaust after the steaming was done.I revved it up until the smoke cleaned up.

That yielded some results and perhaps the steam got cooled off before it hit the pistons and was more of a water cleaning.Think ya gotta get closer to the pistons to get the real effects of steam.



She pings less and maybe it needs more water down her throat.LOL



Seafoam didn't do it either.What did you use for lead carbon buildup?

An Italian tuneup didn't clean her out yet either.

Thanks in advance.



Flatfour.

P.S.

This bike was out of proper tune when i got it.And its from a leaded gas era.
 

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If you have a serious build up in the cylinder and pistons the only real answer is to pull the heads off and mechanically clean the piston tops, valves and head. You might try using higher octane gas, if it doesn't ping there's a reasonable chance that putting some miles along with continuing Sea Foam treatment on the bike might burn off the crud.
 

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If you pull the heads off as I did for valve stem guide replacement then I found that a simple wooden stick on the heads shifted the blackened buildup. You should really not use anything to abrasive.

Chances are that your steaming just helped un gum the rings and that led to your increased performance. They seem to have a clear sticky gum attached to them when you remove them.

Agree with Exdavid that if your has higher mileage then running with a high lead based fuel every other fill up will help with the "pinking".
 

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Since there hasn't been any leaded fuel in the US for about 25 years I doubt that is the problem. Carbon buildup with unleaded fuel is usually very little, not enough to cause pre-ignition problems. Either retard the timing slightly or use higher octane fuel.
 

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exavid wrote:
If you have a serious build up in the cylinder and pistons the only real answer is to pull the heads off and mechanically clean the piston tops, valves and head. You might try using higher octane gas, if it doesn't ping there's a reasonable chance that putting some miles along with continuing Sea Foam treatment on the bike might burn off the crud.
I was always under the impression that high octane fuel burned cooler to compensate for the higher compression. I heard the term "Octane Junkie" where a motor that should have run regular gas was run on high test to the point where the carbon build up made it necessary to run the higher octane.

No answers, just questions.
 

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If it's carbon build-up, then this will knock the major portions out:

50% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol
50% Hydrogen Peroxide
Mix in clean spray bottle for misting

Remove spark plugs and analyze for combustion
Inspect piston surface through spark plug hole

Start and warm engine to Normal Operating Temperature

Install new spark plugs
Start and rev engine to 4000 RPM
Spray 3-5 shots directly into intake
Repeat 5 times.

Remove spark plugs and analyze for combustion
Inspect piston surface through spark plug hole


But, in all reality, I would say there is something amiss with the timing.
Carbon build-up could easily come from a worn ring issue.
 

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Well thanks for all the responses.I like the cheap fix captain I will give that a try.The engine is very sound no oil burning and its strong.
The timing is the split timing which is my 3rd attempt after factory settings yielded no results.

The gas shes been using has been a alternate of premium and midgrade Shell and Chevron.No differences in the pinging.
Maybe its ready to run on diesel fuel.

Somebody said there is a product sold at chrysler dealers called Top End.I used something in the 70S called Carb Out.
Toyota dealers have something also but forgot the name of it.Pretty expensive but they swear by it.I used it 3 times at 23.00 a can on my old Benzs.
As for the lead.Thats just what a veteran motorcycle mechanic told me some years ago when my GS 1000g had the same pinging.He said he scraped off a few pistons with chronic pinging due to the lead deposits.
Thanks again,

Flatfour
 

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Sidenote:

The after-market fuel additives have their processes of chemically raising the oxygen content of the fuel mix introduced into the combustion chamber. Fine line on maintaining the availablebenefit without break-down of the molecules by the time they reach the combustion chamber for ignition. Reading the ingredients can prove their merit. All use lubricants and stabilizers to achieve safety for you and the engine.

My above postedmix provides none of the above.
The old formula was: Water
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
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Yes Captain!Water was the cure.I used the espresso machine steamer rod and steamed it real good at 4,000 rpm as u suggested.Idle dropped about 800 rpm during the steaming and lots of blue smoke poured out of the exaust pipes after removing the steamer rod.Revved it up and a lot of blue smoke.
Took it for a brisk ride and the pinging is gone.It accelerated and decelerated absolutley spot on.
Roll on in fifth gear was the best its been since the 2 barrel Weber carb conversion.Im really loving this bike now.
Now its time to use that espresso machine on my old benz.
Thanks again all.


Flatfour
 

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Flatfour, this espresso steamer gizmo you use, can you explain in a little more detail what you do? How long did you use it for and what temperature was the water?
 

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Lol.Dont go running off to Starbucks like I did in 1991 and pay $400.00 for a chrome plated Italian made espresso machine only to use it for engine decarbonizing.

But seriously an old Biker retired from the Bandidos motorcycle thug gang told me about the trick of steam to clean carbon out of the top end.
he said i had to drill a hole in the intake or even the head to do the job.I wasn't that desparate yet.It's no wonder his old harley keeps blowing up)

Okay I'm using a two barrel Weber.The stockers feed air from the top so its only a little more work directing steam to the individual cylinders on the stockers vs one throat for the Weber.

I started engine let it warm.Started Espresso machine.It's all metal and has a metal steaming rod to steam milk.Once it pressurizes from the boiling water,a valve can be opened and steam and water droplets shoot out under pressure.
I had to use a rubber hose to reach the top of the carb.Just slid it over the steamer rod.

Captain Midnight suggested a 4000 rpm speed in his post.I set the cruise contol on 4000 rpm and fed steam and water droplets down into the carb.I did it in intervals with no set amount of time maybe 4 minutes tops at each interval.

The engine temp rises pretty fast when you do this.I turned the garden hose on the radiator 3 times during the steaming.

The rpms dropped during the steaming to around 3200 rpm.It was fun to pull the steamer out and watch the revs build back.
I knew I was on to something.Either the engine was ready to let go or the carbon was breaking up because when the steaming stopped the exaust smoke was blue for a good 3 minutes.The smoke stopped and I was anxious to see if it worked.
I really let her have it the second time i steamed her.(sounds romantic)
Took her out and beat her (battery now)
Pinging all gone hurrah.It wasnt the timing after all!

No steaming from the exaust during the process that I could see.
Did it to my old Benz too Now the engine shuts off when I turn the key to off.Finally something that works.

Flatfour

Stanley Steamer was on to something.Espresso machines that you could drive.
 

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I too have heard of using steam, but it was always second hand info and I could never figure out how to get steam to a carburetor aside from using a iron. Good job.
 

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Who would have guessed, I've never heard of that before. Thanks Flatfour, that is really a very informative post. I suppose the steam under so much pressure must shift all the deposits off the piston crown and off the valve seats and and stems. I wonder if any of it contaminated the oil in the process? A minor thing, it's such a lot of work and expense to strip the top end to perform the cleaning, what a saving. I wonder if one of those handheld steamers would work for that?
Wish I could give you more mana. Thanks again
 

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Your very welcome.
A hand held steamer may work better than an espresso machine.My wife was wondering why I was outside making espresso.I told her that my lemonade stand needed a shot in the arm.
Flatfour
 

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Actually you dont need steam. Just water.
Its basic chemistry, water contains 2 oxygen atoms.
When you add more oxygen in the burning prosess its temperature raises rapidly and that causes carbon deposits to burn away.
Remove air filter, run engine warm, raise engine speed up to 80% and start spraying water mist in the inlet tube.
You can use the garden hose which you have to have around anyway to spray the radiator to keep it cool, or if you feel insecure take the pump spray bottle which she uses spraying her flowers.
We used to "rebuild" Japanese car engines this way in early 90´s. When grandparents had driven their Toyota too slowly last 5 years they started burning oil because piston rings were stuck because of carbon deposits.
Warm engine, wide open throttle and garden hose - big smoke!
Just remember to take care that the owner wont show up during the service ;)
 

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I too have seen this done with Water Only.

If you will look under the exhaust pipe you should have seen tiny pieces of carbon as this breaks up the carbon deposits on the top of piston and on the cylinder head. It will show up as a spray, like sand where the exhaust exits the engine.

Engine must be hot and run at a fairly high RPM, Then they would dump cold water through the carb. But not enough to choke out engine, But it would stumble hard. They then would race engine until it cleared only to do this a few more times.

I grew up as a poor Indian on the reservation amongst people too cheap to take their vehicle to a real mechanic. So I seen all kinds of "Black Magic Fixes" just so they could drive another week to work.

Like Blended Banana's in the Auto Tranny Fluid to help a slipping Transmission. Sawdust mixed with the 90 Weight Gear Oil in a Standard transmission or rear end.
Fells Naphtha Soap and pepper to stop a radiator leaking.
A Piece of Leather belt as the bearing surface on a crank to stop a rod from knocking.

Ohhh There are tons more. Welding with a coat hanger and a 12 volt battery.

And on and on...

You did good Flatfour.

C Ya

Mohawk
 

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Mohawk wrote:
Ohhh There are tons more.  Welding with a coat hanger and a 12 volt battery.

And on and on...

You did good Flatfour.

C Ya

Mohawk
Tell me more about the welding Mohawk..

(Eh for the moderators, forgive me John for I have sinned for going off topic) This has been such a great conversation.
Thanks Colm
 

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With this mixture your going to get very hot combustion tempetures. So, using a garden hose to spray down the radiator will definetly be requiried to help cool the engine. the formula mixseems to be fine for the purpose. Myself, i would adjust this formula by adding a small amount(10%) of highly refined lubricating oil to the mix (clear 10 weight oil).... If your going to "Burn Off" carbon, to me it makes sense that a little upper cylinder lubricant might be an added benefit. Alcohol is prety hot stuff by itself. And the oxygen released by the peroxide accelerates thecombustion of the alcohol used.It's going to get super hot... super quick ! so, no lube added, to me is a concern... Knowbuddy [email protected]
 

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Ahhhh, Sorry I never got back to you. Been a zoo around here.

I know better now, But I have done it and seen it done many times when I was a kid.

This was usually only done in an emergency or while out in the woods where you could't get another vehicle in to help.

With a set of Good Jumper cables hooked to a large 12Volt Battery and a straightened Metal Coat Hanger.

Clamp one cable to what your welding and the other holds the straightened coat hanger. Now with a Shaking, or oscillating hand put the end of the coat hanger close to what you need to weld. Once the Arc starts, just keep the wire close to your work and try not to let it stick to the work, (Very Important) if it sticks and you cant break it free quick enough, Everything goes bad real quick. I have seen the insulation dripping from the jumper cables they got so hot so quick.

With the right touch and proper motion of your hand you can get a weld that will stick, Sometimes it's not a pretty weld, But if it sticks, the job is done.

Not recommended now days. Some Safety Clown would show up and try to fine us.

But sometimes I will have to tell you of the time a guy was pouring gas into the carb from a mason jar and the engine backfired and set the gas on fire and he screamed and flung it. Setting 5 other guys on fire. Well, There were 6 ****** rolling on the grass putting themselves out and the rest laughing thier ass off and pointing.

Ahhhh, The Memories..

I never had a problem realizing why the Whites won.

But if they didn't, I wouldn't be in this factory right now. Grin.

L8tr Guys

Mohawk
 

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I find it hard to believe that steam will loosen years of carbon. I have had heads off many trucks and cars in my wrenching days back before we had unleaded, and I can tell you it took a bit of hammering and chipping to get the old carbon off the pistons.
 
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