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I have had a EUREKA moment today!!!! EUREEEEEEKA!!!:yelling:



Up until a few weeks ago I had never heard of counter steering.

When another club member asked me "Do you countersteer", I had no idea what he was talking about, so he explained "If you want to go right push the bar to the left" I'll bet my face was a picture, "You're having a laugh aren't you" I think I managed to say.

When I returned home I spent considerable time looking and reading on the internet.

But up until today I had not tried it, sure I'd given the bar a little nudge to see if a little left nudge would make the bike go right.

But today I have been for a short ride around the country lanes, and tried it........a little pressure on the bar in the opposite direction to the way I want to go..........maybe its me but that seems so much easier than leaning. Is this the black art of making motorcycling more ............FUN??:applause:
 

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I don,t know about black art, but it makes manuvers quicker and makes cornerning more precise
 

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Actually when you "leaned" you were already pushing on the handle bar a slight bit withoutpaying attention toit.

Adding a little extra really lays the bike over quicker.:action:

I have wear holes on the outside of my boots to prove it.:shock:

 

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When my wife came back from her motorcycle safety course a few years ago, all she could talk about was countersteering. WTF? I never thought about it, just rode the bikes and somehow managed to get around the corners over the last hundred thousand miles.

Interestingly, once I went to the darkside on my Vlak, I found myself consciously countersteering to get that flat rear tire to go on edge. Ah ha, I noted...
 

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I was also amazed in the motorcycle class when they discussed this. As I tried this on the course I said hot damn ; thats cool as all get out. 60 yrs old and never noticed but was doing it subconsciously.
 

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SERIOUSLY.

Some of y'all need to find a friend with a little 600cc sportbike and take it to the track.

Not saying ditch your Goldwing. That's not it at all. But a little cheapy 600cc and a good twisty bit of racetrack can teach you sumpin.
 

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rgbeard wrote:
SERIOUSLY.

Some of y'all need to find a friend with a little 600cc sportbike and take it to the track.

Not saying ditch your Goldwing. That's not it at all. But a little cheapy 600cc and a good twisty bit of racetrack can teach you sumpin.
So can a good MX dirt bike:D
 

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I prefer "Riding" the bike, yeah kinda like a horse so to speak. Counter-steering is not something I would consciously try to focus on. I've done it before in the sportbike days, but I like to be one with the machine. Not focus on arms and handlebars, but focus on entire bike and entire body. This way I can keep total focus on the path, and bike and body just track naturally.
 

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StereoSteveo wrote:
I prefer leaning. Counter-steering is not something I would consciously try to focus on. I've done it before in the sportbike days, but I like to be one with the machine. Not focus on arms and handlebars, but entire bike and entire body.
Your avatar rider would disagre.
 

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SETHAN12 wrote:
rgbeard wrote:
SERIOUSLY.

Some of y'all need to find a friend with a little 600cc sportbike and take it to the track.

Not saying ditch your Goldwing. That's not it at all. But a little cheapy 600cc and a good twisty bit of racetrack can teach you sumpin.
So can a good MX dirt bike:D
That's a good point and I have no dirt experience.

How do the skills translate to the street??
 

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rgbeard wrote:
SETHAN12 wrote:
rgbeard wrote:
SERIOUSLY.

Some of y'all need to find a friend with a little 600cc sportbike and take it to the track.

Not saying ditch your Goldwing. That's not it at all. But a little cheapy 600cc and a good twisty bit of racetrack can teach you sumpin.
So can a good MX dirt bike:D
That's a good point and I have no dirt experience.

How do the skills translate to the street??
No counter steer in the dirt you get hurt. spining back tirewhen it gets traction the front one better be headed into direction you want to go. It also let's you contol the driftof the turn. I don't think I know how to ride without some counter steer learned in the dirt.
 

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rgbeard wrote:
StereoSteveo wrote:
I prefer leaning. Counter-steering is not something I would consciously try to focus on. I've done it before in the sportbike days, but I like to be one with the machine. Not focus on arms and handlebars, but entire bike and entire body.
Your avatar rider would disagre.
Yes I'll bet he counter steers!!
 

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Ok, now let's take it a step further. You have always been doing it. You may not have known what it was, or that it had a name, but it's impossible to ride a bicycle, let alone a motorcycle without it.
As you are riding at extremely slow speeds, 1 or 2 mph, the bike is kept almost perfectly upright, and you are balancing the bike with your body. At this slow speed, you turn the handle bar right to go right and left to go left. But as you do this, the forces on the bike are so small, that you keep the bike upright.
Once you get up to 3 or 4 mph, the various forces working on the bike overcome your body weight and take over. That crossover point will vary by a couple miles per hour, depending on your weight and the weight of the motorcycle, but it will always be a very low number.
Due to the geometry of the bike and they way it is designed to interact with the forces of gravity, centrifugal force and centripetal acceleration, there is a balance between the bike naturally righting itself and gravity pulling it over. The reason you lean in a turn is that the force thowing you out as you turn is exactly balanced by the force pushing you in and gravity pulling you over.
If you are rolling along at any speed greater than a crawl, it doesn't matter if it's 10 mph or 100 mph, you cannot just lean yourself into a turn. The bike is too stable for that. You have to destablize the bike into the lean. And you do that by counter steering.
Remember when you were a child first learning to ride a bicycle? When you started to fall over, you learned to steer into the direction of the fall to keep the bike upright.Well take that a step farther. If you turn the handle bars in either direction, centrifugal force will push the bike outward, thereby causing you to start to fall in the opposite direction. Then you turn the handlebars into the direction of the fall and re-right yourself. Turn your handlebars into the direction of the fall just a little bit less, and you restablize the the bike in the lean position, and you find yourself turning. While in this leaning position, if you steer a little bit out of the direction of the turn, the bike leans a bit more and you turn sharper. If you steer into the direction of the turn, you cause the bike to right itself and you stop turning. So it's still true even mid-lean.
And it's going on constantly. As you are going straight down the road, you are never really going perfectly straight, you are always wandering a little bit back and forth, and it's always the same, if you want to come back to the right, you turn the wheel a little bit to the left to induce a slight lean to the right, and then bring the wheel back to the right to stop the lean and bring you back to upright, and vice-versa. It's impossible to do it otherwise. You have been doing it since you were seven years old and you took the training wheels of your first two-wheeled bicycle.
Also interesting to keep in mind, to turn right, it doesn't matter if you push on the right handlebar, or pull on the left, the effect is the same. You can flip the bike back and forth from peg to peg with one finger on one handlebar just by pushing and pulling. With two hands on the handlebars, your hands work together.
So if this is so natural, and you have been doing it all along, why do they teach it in MSF classes? Because it's human nature to freeze up in an emergency situation, and if you have something positive to concentrate on, such as pushing on one handlebar, you will respond more quickly and with more force. Plus the push is more natural and stronger than the pull. So by concentrating on that, it just may be the edge you need to save you in a bad situation.
 

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Wolfman wrote:
...You have always been doing it. You may not have known what it was, or that it had a name, but it's impossible to ride a bicycle, let alone a motorcycle without it (counter-steering).
Wolfman is exactly right! There is NO other way to steer a motorcycle at speed other thancounter-steering.

He's also right in that that most people who have never had motorcycle riding training are actually counter-steering by accident, usually by leaning their body into the curve, which puts a down-and-out force on the handlebar on the side of the rider's lean. Yup, that's counter-steering by accident.

You can steer your bike much faster by counter-steering without leaning by simply pressing down and out on the handlebar on the side toward which you want to turn. Way faster than leaning. If you every have to avoid something in the road at highway speeds you may not have time to lean, but you have time to push. Try it. You'll be amazed at how fast a bike reacts to counter-steering input with just your arms and hands. This is also why riders who don't understand counter-sterring manytimes turn right into a hazard instead of going around it.

So, whether you know it or not, you've been counter-steering for all the years you've been riding.

If you can'tfind or don't want to take a rider education course, then may I suggest you read one of the best books ever written about motorcycle riding.

"Proficient Motorcycling - The Ultimate Guide to RidingWell" - by David Hough

This is generally considered the best book ever written on the subject. For a mere $12.95 it just might save your life one day. (I've got both of David's books and pull them out every monthor so just to keep techniquesfresh in my mind. And I've been riding for 46 years.)

Here's a link to it:

http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ultimate-Guide-Riding/dp/1889540536

Do yourself a favor. Learn everything you can aboutriding right, riding better, and riding safely. And keep your skills up year-after-year.

***
 

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I challenge anyone to get any motorcycle up to speed, put some duct tape on the throttle to hold it at speed, take your hands off the handlebars and then lean, lean, lean to your heart's content. The bike ain't goin' nowhere except in a straight line.
 

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Countersteer in the dirt?

All the time! Rear end breaks loose a little, drop the bars into the corner and countersteer.

Any type of motorcycle riding pays dividends in other types or riding...

Reminds me of the time I took the GW to Edisto Island and turned into the parking lot at the pavilion...front end went to wash out in the sand...grabbed some throttle and broke the rear end loose, counterweighted to the high side and steered away from the direction it wanted to fall. All at slower speeds, but the same things I do in the dirt all the time.
 

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Sure looks like counter steer to me.
No more to say
 

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If you wana feel the difference, hop on a trike or sidecar rig where you DIRECT steer. You'll see pretty quickly what the difference is.
 

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Countersteering IS the only way to control a motorcycle, and if you ride a motorcycle, you HAVE been doing it, though you may not have been doing it well. I spent years riding sportbikes (before my arthritis and fibromyalgia got so bad, I still ride a Ninja 500 with bar risers) and got plenty of practice countersteering. Countersteering is how you flick a sportbike from side to side quickly, through multiple S curves. Those videos of the guy riding the Dragon on the yellow Goldwing are a good example of countersteering taken to extremes on a large bike. I still think that guy is a current or former professional roadracer with highly modified suspension.

We have a lot of motorcycles, mostly sportbikes, run off the road on my favorite sportbike road around here (members from AZ will probably know it well, highway 87 from Mesa to Payson) because of their lack of experience with countersteering. The get into a curve a bit to fast, and instead of countersteering to make the bike lean over farther, they stay too upright, and run right off the road, into a guardrail, or a 300 foot cliff.
 

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If you have to think about it, you're already behind the curve.

I truly have come to enjoy my '83 I. I just let the bike tell me what she wants and I shamelesly give it to her. I'm not a peg grinder but with my fresh Avons, Progressive suspension, life is good.

I "fly" my wing. Good to go.

Hobie
 
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