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Please do not be offended when most of the darkside refuses to change.....
When confronted about the dangers of my drinking and drugging, I quit 31 years ago. I made a change for my safe and well being.

Your statement sounds like you hope and pray that all the darksiders come to their senses and go to Darksiders Anonymous.

In America, we have the right of free key strokes. We can waste as many as we wish at will.

All of the darksiders should ban together, write a "big book" manual on quitting this unsafe practice and realize that we are endangering the lives of our friends, family and other motorists on the road.

I will gladly dispose of any Dunlop Wintersport Run Flat tires for the converted.

To the dark side forum, "rest in peace." The tide has changed.

I hope the OP joins all of the other motorcycle forums to post this information to save lives.

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Or perhaps enlightened...
To what, how to save money? Save even more: don't ride.

I would really like to see someone state similar info (and amount) on why car tires are just as good as motorcycle tires on a motorcycle, and not just the normal:
"It feels a little funny at first but you get used to it"
"It has better traction because the contact patch is bigger"
"I have never had a real problem"
"My insurance company will NEVER give me a hard time if something does happen and they find out I had a car tire on my bike"
"Motorcycle tire makers overcharge"


To to O.P.: People can be given all the information/statistics on a topic but still will ignore/make fun of ALL of it because they tend to decide things more on an emotional level. This is why insults are posted, and people are made fun of. What you did was lots of work, thank you.

My favorite is when I see people post that motorcycle tire makers are ripping us off by over charging us for an inferior lasting product. With motorcycle tires there is a higher product liability, different dynamics, tighter tolerences, higher quality control, and a more limited market; with ANY ITEM all these will equate to higher prices.



Bill
 
The article was so long and technically verbose I quickly lost interest and had to give up although I really appreciate your hard work and attention to detail. Did anyone see any statistics on a "Run Flat" car tire or was the all based on a standard car tire?
 
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To what, how to save money? Save even more: don't ride.

I would really like to see someone state similar info (and amount) on why car tires are just as good as motorcycle tires on a motorcycle, and not just the normal:
"It feels a little funny at first but you get used to it"
"It has better traction because the contact patch is bigger"
"I have never had a real problem"
"My insurance company will NEVER give me a hard time if something does happen and they find out I had a car tire on my bike"
"Motorcycle tire makers overcharge"
Bill
I have 30,000 miles on two different passenger tires on my 1500. I am no expert, not even considered experienced. I was just following the advice of 1,000's of others who are having success with it.

I wouldn't doubt that there is a hybrid tire in the works for the big cruisers. There is a demand for the attributes that come from using passenger tires and if a motorcycle tire got 25,000+ miles and had the traction and stopping power of my current tire, I would be on board with one. I would even pay the higher price!

The emotion comes from those that want to change others. If you don't want to run a passenger tire on your motorcycle, fine. If you do, fine.

For those that don't, I respect your choice.

I have two coffee cup holders on my bike. And sometimes I ride my bike in 4th gear at 3,000 rpms in town.....

I pull a trailer.

I sometimes ride without a helmet when legal.

Sometimes I waste keystrokes!
 
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To those of you that state what is posted in the motorcycle manual I ask you do you ever pull a trailer? Do you put things on you bike that is not listed in the manual? The fact is that the tire dealers are still putting out tires that are under rated for the larger touring bikes. If you ride 2 up with your gear on and pull a trailer you are over the weight and toung weight. What? Still not MCT in a run flat? Hmmm. A car tire gives me the security of a runflat and gives me much more weight load.
I think everyone should ride with what they are comfortable with. Don't take anyones word for what is right including the manual. Try something for yourself and see if it works for you or not.
 
If you never try anything new or different then guess what you end up with? Nothing. Guess where most new items come from, someone going against the grain trying to find something better. If that never happened we would all be riding the same bikes, driving the same cars etc.
 
All of the darksiders should ban together, write a "big book" manual on quitting this unsafe practice and realize that we are endangering the lives of our friends, family and other motorists on the road.
The emotion comes from those that want to change others. If you don't want to run a passenger tire on your motorcycle, fine. If you do, fine.
That's exactly my point. I do not try to convert others... but it just rankles me when others feel so "qualified" to attempt to "convert" me. I have been entirely mum on this subject since last year... and yet here we are again. The same guy trying to convert folks to his point of view

He's not interested in keeping me safe, he has an axe to grind and want's more than anything to be vindicated by being acknowledged as "right."

IF... he was really interested in safety... he'd pour this amount of effort into educating cell phone yappers as to the evils of their ways.

In light of that danger... a few darkside riders pales in importance.
 
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Thanks for the information in your post, very enlightening. I also thought about going to a CT on my bike but I came to the conclusion that car tires are for cars and MT's are for motorcycles, your post just reaffirmed that.
 
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That's exactly my point. I do not try to convert others... but it just rankles me when others feel so "qualified" to attempt to "convert" me. I have been entirely mum on this subject since last year... and yet here we are again. The same guy trying to convert folks to his point of view

He's not interested in keeping me safe, he has an axe to grind and want's more than anything to be vindicated by being acknowledged as "right."

IF... he was really interested in safety... he'd pour this amount of effort into educating cell phone yappers as to the evils of their ways.

In light of that danger... a few darkside riders pales in importance.
Hello, My name is Larry and I am a darkaholic.

I was doing fine in life until I bought a Goldwing and started hanging out with other Wingers. Some started to experiment with darksiding and out of curiosity, I tried it. I didn't like it right away, but then I got hooked.

It didn't interfere with my work or my family life initially.... because I set some boundaries for myself and darksiding:

1. I would never darkside at night. (this is called double darksiding!)
2. I would never darkside with members of the opposite sex. (this is called f......ing darksiding, which is wrong!)
3. I would never darkside with any of my family members.
4. I would never darkside on my way to work.
5. I would only have just two darkside sessions a week and none on Sunday.
6. I would never try to convince others that darksiding was the right thing to do. (I just didn't want to start preaching to others about how I am in control of my darksiding and there is no danger in doing it. You know, you heard it before: Come on...... take a chance. Live a little.)

I was deluded to think I could darkside with all of those rules. How could I do controlled darksiding?

I hid my darksiding from my friends. I let others know only on a "need to know basis."
I only rode motorcycles with other darksiders so I could feel normal.
I joined a darkside club and we talked about others who were doing it without any harm, even though we knew that there was increased dangers in doing so. We risked everything to darkside.
I became friends with one of the guys who who started an internet forum for darksiding.
I was hooked.

Then, I read a posting on GoldwingFacts dot com and I knew right away that I was kidding myself. I ran to the closest 12 step meeting and found others who had read the same things and we are sticking together in recovery from darksiding.

I had to let all of my darkside buddies go. I don't answer their calls anymore. They are lost souls and are living a dangerous life and I don't want to be a part of it. I had to save myself. I had to get out and break the chains of addiction.

Thanks to my higher power and my friends who helped me though it.

I am a grateful recovering darkaholic.

We say a prayer at our meetings:

"God, grant me the serenity to accept things we cannot change, courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

I always pray for the still suffering.

:praying:
 
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Hello, My name is Larry and I am a ******.

:praying:
I am going to make two more comments and then I'll back out of here gracefully rather than continue to be lured into argument:

1. I have a hard time taking tire advice from a guy who has the equivalence of a two years associates degree from UTI... who is now basically a cabinet designer... and has still never ridden a dark side tire. All his evidence is theoretical... drawings and physics with no head to head field testing what so ever.

2. I worked for years with my father, who actually was an engineer, B.S. from the University of Texas at Austin and a masters from Texas A&M. I once had to wait for him to drive home because he was "sealing drawings." As a licensed P.E. That meant he was using his P.E. seal to stamp drawings that certified that they were as good as he could make them. I asked: "So your the one that comes up with the "right' way to do things? To build stuff?" He took a big puff off his Winston and looked me right in the eye and said "NO!" He told me something I have never forgotten. "There is always more than one right solution to any problem. All I am doing here certifying that THIS solution will work. It is very dangerous to begin to believe that you are such a smart ba$tard that YOUR solution is the ONLY solution."

So you see in my brain... it isn't "either/or." Both solutions work. This guy has lots of flashy drawings and self gratifying prose to support his stance. But no real evidence that any accident has ever been caused by darksiding. I have two different heavy cruisers with about 35K experience riding darkside.

He knows what he knows. I know what I know. The difference is that I do not feel qualified to try to overtly sell my view to others as the only complete truth.

I am done with this thread.

T
 
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:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Anyone lube their deer wistles with a little Delo, MMO, and Sea Foam lately?

And how 'bout them Harley's...

Seems to me the information provided was just that... information. No opinions, just data from a technical stand point. And what's wrong with having a little (or in this case a lot) of information?

As far as the personal attack to darksiders that you think is taking place, I believe he specifically said it wasn't meant to convert anyone, just providing info to those curious. He may have had other motives, but we don't really know that for sure, do we? So really, all this "rage" is simply over the fact that someone disagrees with you.

That said, as an engineering major in my 3rd year now, I can tell you engineering and math is great, but I have yet to see any engineering "problem" that took ALL the factors into account. So while I would not question the engineering and math behind everything posted, I would say that folks should consider the possibility that there are other factors not accounted for, as evidenced by the success current darksiders have enjoyed. But agian, that said, there are obviously some valid points there because, correct me if I'm wrong, the 1200 CANNOT go darkside... I believe it was Dave0430 that described the violent results if you try...

Not everyone agrees with me that Delo is the best oil for their wing, but I don't take it as a personal attack when someone states that disagreement. And just for the record, if I heard of a tested and true option for the 1200 that worked as well as the one for the 1500, I'd probably put on my black cloak as well.

The point is, there are many factors to consider... my question is, can't we consider those factors without turning this into another one of "those" threads?

Eh, probably not... As you were... :headbanger::waving:
 
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:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Anyone lube their deer wistles with a little Delo, MMO, and Sea Foam lately?

And how 'bout them Harley's...

Seems to me the information provided was just that... information. No opinions, just data from a technical stand point. And what's wrong with having a little (or in this case a lot) of information?

As far as the personal attack to darksiders that you think is taking place, I believe he specifically said it wasn't meant to convert anyone, just providing info to those curious. He may have had other motives, but we don't really know that for sure, do we? So really, all this "rage" is simply over the fact that someone disagrees with you.

That said, as an engineering major in my 3rd year now, I can tell you engineering and math is great, but I have yet to see any engineering "problem" that took ALL the factors into account. So while I would not question the engineering and math behind everything posted, I would say that folks should consider the possibility that there are other factors not accounted for, as evidenced by the success current darksiders have enjoyed. But agian, that said, there are obviously some valid points there because, correct me if I'm wrong, the 1200 CANNOT go darkside... I believe it was Dave0430 that described the violent results if you try...

Not everyone agrees with me that Delo is the best oil for their wing, but I don't take it as a personal attack when someone states that disagreement. And just for the record, if I heard of a tested and true option for the 1200 that worked as well as the one for the 1500, I'd probably put on my black cloak as well.

The point is, there are many factors to consider... my question is, can't we consider those factors without turning this into another one of "those" threads?

Eh, probably not... As you were... :headbanger::waving:
I do not feel I am under attack. I am perturbed by childish behavior in adults. If 19 years in the classroom doesn't qualify me to recognize childish behavior nothing will.

I feel like I am dealing with an 8 year old that is intent on having his way on his pet subject.

Also... I find waste unforgivable. It staggers me to think how much time this guy wastes on this... when he could be pouring that time and obvious intellect into something that really counts... but this... this is infantile. What folks with behavioral intervention training call "self gratifying behavior."
 
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I do not feel I am under attack. I am perturbed by childish behavior in adults. If 19 years in the classroom doesn't qualify me to recognize childish behavior nothing will.

I feel like I am dealing with an 8 year old that is intent on having his way on his pet subject.

Also... I find waste unforgivable. It staggers me to think how much time this guy wastes on this... when he could be pouring that time and obvious intellect into something that really counts... but this... this is infantile. What folks with behavioral intervention training call "self gratifying behavior."
I really think you should tell us how you really feel about this. Don't beat around the bush.

All kidding aside, I shouldn't be joking around on such a dangerous subject matter. I mean, going darkside is almost as dangerous as enlisting in the Army.



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:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Anyone lube their deer wistles with a little Delo, MMO, and Sea Foam lately?

Eh, probably not... As you were... :headbanger::waving:
Delo... I heard that is recycled diesel oil. :raspberry:
 
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I really think you should tell us how you really feel about this. Don't beat around the bush.

All kidding aside, I shouldn't be joking around on such a dangerous subject matter. I mean, going darkside is almost as dangerous as enlisting in the Army.
... or abortion. Absolutely fatal... 100% of the time... and perfectly legal.... underwritten by my taxes and a sane method of birth control.

So in perspective, is this really an issue to any reasonably rational adult person?

'prolly not.
 
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I must say this: The OP put in an incredible amount of effort into his post.

Shouldn't this thread be in the technical section? It is an excellent post to start a good discussion on tires.

I would have missed it entirely and no one would have had to waste their eye muscles on my keystrokes.

Yes, I realize I am over posting, but I have to get to 1,000 before this thread dies. My posts constitutes nothing more than troll babbling compared to his efforts.

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Good write up and obviously hard to swallow for some of our darksiders. Personally I would never even consider going darkside, simply because I don't have to nor want to.
 
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Good write up and obviously hard to swallow for some of our darksiders. Personally I would never even consider going darkside, simply because I don't have to nor want to.
It's not hard to swallow... because I didn't try. I have learned to not even try swallowing swill!

Straight and simple. I didn't read the danged thing. I am too busy to even attempt to digest material that contradicts what I have already tested and know works. Much in the same way I don't read "Religious Materials" kind folks leave on my door contradictory to what I already know to be so.

That's called freedom of choice... not freedom from choice. (Pssst! BTW! It's an adult concept!)

My point is more reflective of motivation rather than just a flat denial of his points. I am curious about WHY this guy pops up from time to time to hop up on his pulpit and start trying to convert folks to his point of view under the guise of "keeping us safe" from our own stupid selves. (Reference the freedom of choice statement above.)

Sure he is entitled to his view. (Reference the freedom of choice statement above.) But to have such a sense of entitlement to do such an obtusely self righteous thing must speak of a very high level of perceived self purity and worthiness. A sense that somehow we are all morons and therefore, ill-informed. Ripe pickings of someone of his so obvious social elitist stature.

As a person who understands a good deal about behavioral disorders... it makes me wonder. What would possess an obvious intelligent guy to do this... to put himself out there on this issue over and over again... year after year?

What cross does he bear?

Is he compensating because he feels deficient in some way? Maybe his mother smothered him too much or he never quite measured up to his father's expectations. Is it that he feels a need to "wow" us mere plebes of his superior intellectual prowess and research capacities in compensation of something he feels he is missing.

The point is: People are gonna do whatever they want, regardless of what you feel is the truth.

Get over it! Move on!

Generally speaking most folks do not care how much you know, until they understand that you care about them... as people.

I just don't get that feeling from this guy. He wants to set himself up as the grand poobah of rim design and in his most benevolent grace and mercy warn us mere mortals of the danger of riding motorcycles.

I would postulate that at ANY given moment... I am at FAR greater risk from a variety of other real vehicular threats than what sort of tire I choose. Seriously... why harp on this? (There's that word again, WHY...)

Yet... this is this guys schtick... his peeve. He is a crusader in an obscure, nit-picky cause that has nothing to do with anything. Why? I just wonder...

Why? Why does he do this?

Perhaps because deep down in his heart, he has a need to be "right" about this issue.

So no... as a confirmed darksider this is most assuredly NOT hard for me to swallow. For me... his content is completely immaterial.... neither right... nor wrong.

It's his tone I object too. His self righteousness and his willingness to set himself up as some sort of "authority" over the rest of us.

T
 
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