[Ron Wylie]

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I have Dunlop Elite 3 tyres, front and rear, on my GL1500SE(P) 1993. I am getting some steering wander and the Wing does not feel as precise as before. Are the tyres a likely suspect or should I look for other problems (oh no, not more - see previous postings by this author! )

It seems to be better with lower front tyre pressure (now 34 psi) than it was with higher pressures.

Any comments please ?

 

[satan]

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Oh ...
:waving:... I just wanna post on the first page of a tire thread :waving:

I'm not certain that I'd use the word "wander" but I think I understand what you're saying. During one of the many "swaps" that we do, a buddy returned my E3-equipped 1500 to me saying that, "it felt like I wanted to fall into turns" all the time. In discussions over icecream later, he explained that he flet that it was a chore to keep the bike upright and straight wihout monitoring what he was doing more closely than he was used to.

At that time both the front and rear tires had about 12K miles and the front was well-cupped (rear showed some feathering)... that silly center-tread ridge that I see on the 1800 fronts was not in evidence.

I've recently passed 15K on another set of E3s; this time with less cupping/feathering and still no evidence of the center ridge on the front. Wear is about 1/16" above the wear indicators. I'm shopping tires now as it seems to handle more like it's on the wet, taking some effort to just "hang out" in a smooth traffic lane, and it also seems to be more sensative to tar-snakes...

Is it that kinda comment that you're looking for ?

 

[Ron Wylie]

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Bingo !!! Exactly and very well put Satan (Oh why oh why is Satan not a Senior Guru ?)

As per my previous post on the subject, right down to the centre band

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/119796.html

I have a part worn Mitchelin GT front, should I try to see if it cures the problem ?

 

[Ken Bergen]

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Ron, in your other thread you said that the tyres were worn flat in the centre.
I noticed the same thing when I changed out my worn flat rear E2 for an E3, I just attributed it being used to fighting to get it off the flat band. After a couple hundred miles I was used the responsiveness of the new tyre and it now feels normal.

 

[Ron Wylie]

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Thanks for your reply Ken.

The new front has only about 2000 miles on it so I would be disappointed if that was the problem. I am not a "twisties" rider but neither do I just do straight and level (Motorways, etc).

Think I should try the GT and see if there is an improvement.

 

[Ken Bergen]

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RON WYLIE wrote:

Thanks for your reply Ken.

The new front has only about 2000 miles on it so I would be disappointed if that was the problem. I am not a "twisties" rider but neither do I just do straight and level (Motorways, etc).

Think I should try the GT and see if there is an improvement.

I put my E3 on the front a year before the back and never noticed any difference in handling, it was only after installing the back one that I noticed the difference.

 

[ALEX BERECZKY]

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Some things that improved Stability on my 1500's when using E3's:
-Upgrading the rear suspension to Progressive (Huge improvement!)
-Using Maximum air pressure on the rear suspension (59psi for the air shock, and stiffest setting for the progressive oil shock)

Further, after having gone to the "dark side" (car tire on the rear, and E3 on the front) I noticed even more Stability in turns.

 

[Ron Wylie]

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Ken, I fitted the rear E3 in July 2010 and the front E3 in June 2011. I dont ride my Wing in the winter months ( usually November to March)and because of heart surgery in Feb 2011 did very little miles until recently. Are you suggesting that the difference in age (and miles) between the 2 tyres maybe the problem ? I guess that the front has done about 2000 miles less than the rear.

What do you suggest may cure the problem (I am reluctant to renw both tyres at a cost of £250 ) ?

 

[satan]

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y'know...

... I'm liking Ken's thinking on this -- like it's got a little 'butt wiggle' from a smoothed rear contact patch (or similar). This thinking fits nicely with some of the cold-morning sharp-turn slipping I've been having.

I'm gonna have'ta get home and take a good peek at the rear wear patterns (possibly add some white shoe-polish to have a look at what all is contacting as I ride...)

 

[BenMC]

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I just didn't like the road roar from the E3s. Won't buy them again.

 

[Spondulas]

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When it felt better "before", what tires were on it prior to the E3s?

When I had Dunlop E2 tires on the front and rear of my bike, I had the low speed "fall over" feeling and wandering that was described above. When I went to Dunlop E3s on both ends, I still had it. I got fed up with the noise on the front E3 and pulled it off early (20,000 miles it but 1/3 of tread left) and replaced it with an Avon Venom X but kept the rear E3 because it was nearly new (nail got the previous rear E3). Instantly the "fall over" feeling and wandering were gone.

Your issues may be your tires.

 

[Ron Wylie]

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I have owned this Wing for the last 9 years and I believe that it was fitted with Bridgestones when we aquired it. Did not like them at all as the Wing followed all the lines in the road.

I ought to point out that my partner, Denise, has osteo-arthritis, so we like a smoother, softer ride and have the standard GL1500 suspension.

The first set of tyres I fitted were Metzeller ME880's . These were fairly good but suffered from cupping unless run at a higher pressure (40+ psi) which made them too "bumpy".

I had 2 or 3 sets of these before changing to the Michelin Pilot GT which I thought were fantastic, apart from the whine from the rear tyre. They wore quite well and could be run at 34/36 psi giving a smoother ride, but then Mitchelin discontinued them hence the change, after a lot of research on this forum, to Dunlop E3.

That's when my troubles started, I think. I have to point out that although I usually change tyres "as a pair" I had to replace the rear Michelin to an E3 early as it was attacked by a screw making it unuseable. I replaced the front some months later.

I find that the E3 tyres make the Wing more of a "handful" than it should be and would go back to Michelins in a flash, despite the whine.

It's a minefield out there for tyres and riders have different opinions on what is good or bad, dependent on many factors (riding style, wear, grip, etc)

I just want a comfortable smooth ride and I am not one for throwing it round twisties, tearing off at breakneck speed (although I do ride to the maximum speed limits) or riding in torrential rain (if I can help it). I want to cruise and admire the countryside, get there safely and enjoy the whole experience.

Is that too much to ask ?

Any (all) thoughts regarding tyre selection appreciated and it looks like I will be having a set of nearly new E3's for sale ! (not really as I need to get some value from them so I will experiment with pressures)

Thanks everyone. Special thanks to Satan for his pleasant, informative and comprehensive PM's)

 

[Ghostrider52005]

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Try about 36 front and 38 rear. I had the same problem with a set of e3s, and this might also be your problem.
The e3 has a bear of a sidewall as far as mounting them goes.
When my last rear was mounted it wanted to fall over in turns, the tread feathered like it was grinding the rubber off but it was still getting good milage. I run dyna beads so no cupping but the fell was as you describe.
What was finally discovered was when the rear e3 was mounted it seated but not evenly around the rim.
Try this and see if it helps. Put the bike up on the center stand and totally deflate the rear tire. The reinflate it again to about 55 lbs. Let it set at that for about a four minutes or so then let the pressure down to 38 lbs cold. That will settle the tire into the bead if its not now. After that you may have to rebalance the tire since typically if a tire is mounted and deflated then reinflated to 50 or 55 lbs then let down to 38 it will take about half the weight to balance it than if it is just mounted and balanced. Hope it helps

 

[Ron Wylie]

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Thats real good advice, Ghostrider.

Thanks I will try that and report.

 

[Ron Wylie]

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Did what was suggested by Ghostrider and also got my tyre pressure gauge tested by a local garage to make sure it was not reading incorrectly. Then I set the pressures to 37 rear and 35 front (why should pressures always be even numbers ?)and also set the rear shock to 3.0 (bar ?) The ride was a lot more pleasant and although not perfect, was an improvement. I will continue to experiment with the pressures and report.

This is how the front tyre looked before the ride.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[jpelmer]

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I am really not trying to hijack this thread to the darkside ... honest.

Just got my GL1500 in June of this year and had E3's front and back. The rear was getting down there but still above the wear bars until Labor Day when I took a trip and wore out the rear. Replaced just the rear with the Dunlop Wintersport 175/60/16.

Now, I have riden a lot over the years but this is my 1st wing. So a bit of wander, catch the seams, wiggle in the lines, I just figure I'm getting used to the bike and not real worried. Changed that rear tire and 95% of the movement is gone. (That 5% is wind buffeting at freeway speed whether from traffic or just stiff breeze) Gooved road doesn't create the wiggle, crossing cement seams is no issue and smooth.

Now, personally I would have argued that the front tire contributed to more movement than the rear, however this experience shows me otherwise.

I've not had this rear tire long enough to experiment with different pressure but am running 40 rear and 41 front.

Just my $0.02



Pat

 

[exavid]

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I ran three sets of E3s on my '93 with no problems at all. They handled well in the twisties and didn't follow the road grooves and tar snakes. They do sing, especially in the curves when they get a bit cupped but balancing that is they give good long tire life.

Wander in a motorcycle is often due to a stiff head bearing. If the head bearings get worn, especially if they are worn or tight enough to feel notchy. On my old TR6 back in the late 50s you set the friction damper on the fork at speed to prevent wobbles and vibration but if you forgot to loosen it when riding slower the bike would seem to wander quite a bit. Same thing if it's the head bearings causing the friction.

 

[bun54]

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I to have not had a problem with E3's. First set 22000mi's second set 23000mi's plus. New set soon to be installed.

 

[Ken Bergen]

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Ron, that picture of your front tyre is scary. How many kilometre's do you have on it and what kind of riding?

 

[Ron Wylie]

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Difficult to say how many miles but would estimate 2500 maximum. We ride, mainly on A roads and occassional motorways and don't go in for "fast twisties". We like to take our time and enjoy the views.

The Wing handles better on the lower pressures as in my previous postings.