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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I need help from experience.
Normally my bike is an sidecar rig, with an EZ-steer 4 degrees rake.
Now I have the possibility to dismount the sidecar, (wife drives a GW 1800 trike, daughter drives a Honda 125 CC), and I no longer NEED the sidecar.
Is it possible to drive with the 4 degree rake, without no hazard???

I have driven Harleys with 12 degrees rake, and hard tail, but have no experience with GoldWings with rake.
 

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O just spoke with a friend that has a trike shop here and he says should not be any problems doing that, just take it easy until you get the feel of how it handles that way. Play with the Suspension setting too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I already have progressive suspension, and fork-braze, and love the steering.
But have been driving with a sidecar for 3 years, made me somehow uncertain what the steering would be like, without the sidecar.
Still like your answer, tho`... Thanx to borther :cool:
Makes me able to driving with, or without the sidecar, without too much fuzz... Just change the rear wheel, detach the sidecar, and go :applause::applause:
 

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Just curious, why do you have to change the rear wheel?
 

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Try it out before you decide. I know it's a different model, but I converted around 35 GL1500's to Cal Sidecar trikes in the mid 90's. They offered a 6 degree rake with 2" over fork tubes. On a couple occasions I did the front end before I converted the back and took the bike with that front end out for a short ride. Didn't make it out of the parking lot it was so bad. I'd describe it as somewhere between frightening and downright dangerous. Of course once it was triked...the front end kit was the only way to go.
 

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E Z Steer reduces trail a bunch .... it is NOT a safe setup for a two wheeler that leans and is steered by countersteering.

People complain about steering wobble or weaving on stock Gold Wings in light throttle or deceleration situations. Trail is what determines a bike's propensity to do this, it's a delicate balance the designer searches for. Too much trail and the steeruing is slow and heavy. Too little trail and steering is too quick and the tank slappers come on too easy.

A GoldWing with an E Z Steer in 2 wheeler mode is a dangerous ride at best. This is why you do not install E Z Steer unless it's permanent for trike or side car use or you are prepared to revert back to stock when removing the sidecar rig.
 

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And the advantages of using a car tire are?
Long Life, Handling, I will never go back to a bike tire on my 1800 I have 2 rims one with a bike tire (for when I take it in for service and warranty work) as soon as I get home the car tire goes back on.
I rode the dragons tail in the pouring rain with my 1800 and a couple of guys on C rockets couldn't beleive how I held the road with my "car tire"
 

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E Z Steer reduces trail a bunch ..


I thought it did the opposite. increasing trail and rake angle.

It does NOT change rake angle on the steering stem axis, it just looks like it does as it changes the rake of the fork tubes leaning them back more which moves the front axle further forward and the tire contact patch closer to that imaginary point where a line drawn through the steering stem contacts the ground.

When the tire contact patch is at the same point there is NO "trail" and no "lead" ....
.... and if it passes it, you have "lead" which is like pushing a castor backwards. Try that with a buggy at Walmart.

The old John Deere or McCormick (etc) tractor with a single front wheel or two paired side by side in a tricycle look had no "trail" and no "lead" and you could turn the wheel and it would stay turned even over corn rows. I know, BT / DT.

As it is, a 6 degree "rake kit" (in 2004, the E Z Steer was still available for 1500s in 6 degrees and I got one of the last 6 degree kits in Sept that year) on a 1500 reduces trail from near 4-1/2 inches to nearer 2-1/4 inches or so .... the exact figure varies slightly with tire inflation and suspension compression.
A 4.5 degree kit moves it some less but still lightens steering and some prefer the slightly heavier feel and now that is what is offered.

I have attached a couple pictures to maybe help illustrate .... :)
 

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CSC still offers and recommends the same 6 degree kit for their 1500 trike kit. I'm not sure about cost comparisons though. Instead of gaining the extra 2 inches in the fork tubes by offering longer fork caps, they include 2 inch over fork tubes and use (pretty sure about this) two fork bushings on the bottem instead of one.

That's a great explanation of trail BTW.
 

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That's a great explanation of trail BTW.
Thanks .... :waving:

The Champion extensions aren't really an issue as the top of the original fork tubes are stilll captured within the upper tree as the extensions are more like 1.5" and they are solid where threaded into the tubes with just a small hole through center. A very solid setup..
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I`m sorry for not giving you guys my feedback before, but has been out of town working, since the question was given.
But thanks a lot for the answers, and the explanations too.
However I`ve been driving with H-D`s with front extensions, 10 inch, ( and hardtail... OUCH), and never had a problem driving them. In fact, they handled better, than originally H-D`s does. But you sure get a sore rear behind, knees, hips and lower back.
Not to mention shoulders, and that`s my biggest concern... Doc says: Quit riding...
I say: NEVER... TILL I`M NOT ABLE, and able I am, yet.

And to Ken Bergen: Car tire will get you further, but is a bitch to drive on 2 wheels. I use a Hancook 195R35/16. It`s way too low a profile to drive on 2 wheels. Choose a 55 profile, if only on 2 wheels. Believe me, all roads in Norway is like The Dragons Tail, and I`ve tested it, without the sidecar.... NO GOOD....
 

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I`m sorry for not giving you guys my feedback before, but has been out of town working, since the question was given.
But thanks a lot for the answers, and the explanations too.
However I`ve been driving with H-D`s with front extensions, 10 inch, ( and hardtail... OUCH), and never had a problem driving them. In fact, they handled better, than originally H-D`s does. ....
Now you are talking a totally different animal.:readit:


Look at the diagrams .... again.


With the steering modification for a trike / sidecar rig known as a "rake kit", the steering stem is NOT raked, but the fork tubes are thus moving the wheel and tire contact forwards without moving the point where an imaginary line through the stem would hit the ground .... thus decreasing trail.


Simply adding extended fork tubes without a change in triple trees will raise the front of the bike, will thus increase rake angle of both fork tubes AND that steering stem extension and will result in increased rake .... thus increasing trail.


Guys who build choppers often put long front ends on .... but they also cut and change the rake of the steering stem to maintain a lot of trail to make the bike more stable.


These "rake kits" for trikes and sidecars only serve to move the front wheel out away from the bike without changing anything in the stem, they reduce trail and will make it a dangerous BIKE but will enhance contraol and fun on a TRIKE .... Bikes and Trikes steer entirely differently. One by countersteering which brings on leaning and the other by turning the handlebars into the turn.
The 1.5 or 2 inch extensions we refer to with these "rake kits" are needed to maintain ride height because we have laid the fork tubes down 4.5 or 6 degrees more from verticle and we lost height in the process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You sure know how to explain, and all your points are highly appreciated.
I`ve now come to the conclusion, that I`ll rebuilt my fork again.

Thanks CrystalPistol

And BTW, I had a Triumph Trident too, but thats years ago. I changed it to a 1000 CC beast, with the NormanHyde big bore kit. Lots of fun on thet bike, but it`s like 20 years ago.

Klaus
 

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You sure know how to explain, and all your points are highly appreciated.
I`ve now come to the conclusion, that I`ll rebuilt my fork again.

Thanks CrystalPistol

And BTW, I had a Triumph Trident too, but thats years ago. I changed it to a 1000 CC beast, with the NormanHyde big bore kit. Lots of fun on thet bike, but it`s like 20 years ago.

Klaus
You are Welcomed Sir! :) You shouldn't need a rebuild though .... just substitute a stock set of triple trees back inplace of the rake kit's and whatever tube change maybe. It's usually easier to go stock as hoses fall back in place. But while apart it would be a gtreat time for seals and bushings. Might even find a purchaser for the kit components .... and maybe they'll pay you to install?



I've looked at kits from several places, I have a pair of old friends who used to sell Triumphs and their shop built a few with the BB kits and stroker / BB kits, some X-75s, some Dents, some R-IIIs. That was in the late '60s and through the '70s and I had two step brothers that worked there as well. Traded a Norton 750 Commando on that first "Dent" after my oldest SB and the young mechanic there raced his '73 in AMDRA F-stock all season long in '74 and reset class records thrice and in all that it suffered a broken ring in one post record teardown inspection .... tough bike! Used some late '60s mufflers on that one through the season as they seemed to breath better .... not heavy Rayguns but the bullet type that shipped with the "Beauty Kits".

I have looked at a 855 kit more recently .... but I swear, she runs so good as is (17K miles total, under 2K on top end, Boyer, Typanium, Carrelo H4, Paul Bryant Big Bore exh with Dunstall Decibels, and all original paint and finish) that I just can't justify doing it, nor am I sure I really want to at this stage.
I'm not 20 as I was when I bought my first Trident in '74 when I used to crave me some Z-1 killing power (750-4 s were easy prey then but then they were just intended to ride and put away and to require no fettling .... and usually they got none) ....
.... I'm now 58 and counting and even after getting off my supperb running '85 GL1200A .... that Trident still scooots and is a blast to ride, handles great, and still makes sounds other bike's (and their owners) only dream of making! :ROFL:

But if I take these lottery tickets in one day and scan them and find that I have a winner of $1,000 a week for life (my game) .... :wtf: next phone call is to "Triples Rule"! ;)

 
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