[morriscatt]

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Hi all,

I turned my carbs on their back, added gas via a elevated gas can to the fuel intake, and when I lift the floats a little gas flows, letting go of the float stops all fuel flow to the carb cup..However, when I turn them over a couple of them send enough fuel to run down the intake manifold. I have adjusted and adjusted until those 2 carb floats are almost closed. ( beyond just haveing the tang just barely touch).
New needle and seat in one, and new needle in the other.
Anyone have any idea why I would still have an overflowing carb cup when set up on bench very level.
HELP!!!!:leprechaun:

 

[retiredintime]

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http://www.randakks.com/TechTips.htm#33

The floats must be set correctly. You can't just adjust them till the flow stops. The link above tells how to do it properly. Most of the aftermarket needles and seats are junk. The only good ones are from mother Honda....

 

[Hatchetman]

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Yup, generic needle & seats do not work. If you were 2 millimeters out of adjustment with your float level, Your bike would not run well. they are a huge pain to get right but if you take your time & work through it, It will pay huge for you when you start it up!!!

 

[morriscatt]

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I think maybe I now know what the main problem has been. I discovered that the metal pin holding the float was bent.. and needed polished bad. At least a couple of the floats were hanging up because of that. Polished one yesterday after putting in new K&L kit and still had problem.. DAH...
Hopefully will finish today. Thanks for all your help guys..

 

[sandiegobrass]

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Waste of time to use the non-OEM valves.. after fighting that for a while, I put the used Honda valves back in... works perfect!!

 

[morriscatt]

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Update:
I put in 3 new K&L kits today, only top and bottom. left in the new napco,, guess which one still leaks! I am going to put back in the best set of my original honda needle/seat tomorrow and hope for the best. If that does not work, I will probably buy another set of K&L cause of the cost and availability.

 

[nomados]

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What I noticed going through similar trials is that it all came down to the shape of the tang. If you look very closely at the tang and how it closes the needle you'll see that the float adjustment is meaningless if the tang doesn't have a smoothly curved shape to close the needle AND maintain the spec of the float height.

 

[morriscatt]

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Thanks Nomados, I understand you to mean that the tang must push straight down on the needle, as opposed to pushing at an angle.. ??
I will redo and keep that in mind.
Thank you very much for your advise.
:leprechaun:

 

[MDKramer]

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Hey Patrick.

First, I'd have to say that I agree with the guys here. The K&L needles are pure junk. No other word that I can type here in the forum will fit.

Mother Honda's valves are pretty much what you're going to have to break down and buy man. I'm sorry to break that to you.

Something else you'll want to consider. If the float pins were nasty and bent, there is a good possibility that the floats themselves are no longer "square" with the world, and will not allow themselves to be set properly.

Randakk has a pretty good picture series on how to check them to make sure they're straight and level.

When it comes to setting the float levels, I'll openly admit, I'm not worth a flip at it. I gave in and sent them to Classic Cycle Parts and they went through them and set them up for me...and frankly, it was well worth it, I still have some hair left.

Mike

 

[morriscatt]

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Hello Mike, thanks for your response. by your response(s) I can tell you are a very nice person! I want to take the time to let you know that.
?? when I firsts put in the 3 K&L needle/seats and did a fuel test with the bottle of fuel overhead,,, All three throats were dry and I was celebrating.. Then as I worked on the one Napco and tested over and over, the K&L's began to allow just a little into the intake throat.. I was going what the heck..
I have leveled the individual floats as in the pic on R's site. I have read his tips about 10 times. I also thought if you turned the carbs over (float side up, cups off) and then applied the gas test and the gas was stopped by the floats, this was good.
I still have my honda N&S(s) so by the end of the day I will try to put them back in.

And yes, thank for advise, floats are leveled, tang is curved a little, and i polished pins and holders/float insides, so float not catching on anything. been setting floats lower and lower till air should not get by.. lol..
today I broke plenum apart and have sprayed everything in sight with PB Blaster,
says will soften and renew orings, plus clean..
And... a member from Okc has experience and has invited me to bring my carbs to his place tomorrow for a look. Yea!
I will finish this thread with success, I guarantee.

 

[sandiegobrass]

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morriscatt wrote:

...I still have my honda N&S(s) so by the end of the day I will try to put them back in.

spot on...

 

[MDKramer]

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What I'll point out here also is that if the needles and seats will allow a little gas to pass through them with just a gravity feed, they don't have a hope in hades of stopping fuel under pressure from the pump.

Before you put the OEM needles and seats back in, have a good look at the rubber on the needles, as well as taking a magnifying glass and having a good, clear look at the seats.

If the rubbers are hard, they won't seal. If they're gone, they won't seal. If you can see any kind of scoring, or uneven wear marks on the seats, they won't seal.

Someone will need to refresh my memory here, but if the needles have the spring tip in them, check to make sure the tips are moving freely.

I'm glad you found someone close to help you out a bit. I'm in Tulsa at the moment, and if Edmond were any closer, I'd take a trip over and have a look to see if I could spot anything amiss. I wouldn't be able to set the floats for you, but I've had 'em apart enough to know what should and should not be.

Mike

 

[Whiskerfish]

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I have seen some that had the spring broken. The tip that the float tang would touch had no spring action. I have noticed some problems with some of the stock units now getting up in years getting weak in the spring action. That small difference is significant if the spring rate is not equal it will dramatacially throw off the float adjustment.

 

[morriscatt]

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Hey all,
Will know more soon, received way more help (than one could ask for) from Tom here on the site, fellow okie,
Tom trained me on complete rebuild of all my carbs. We did use my already purchased kits from K&L and even the needle from Napco.
We tested carbs and NO Float problem. Throats Dry...!!! Yea...
My Plenum gasket needed replaced so it is on order from RDKS now.
Cannot thank tom (Dingdong) enought!

Carb flooding was caused by the dried up 2 interior thick o-rings. Once that was fixed, flooding stopped completely. Had a small leak in plenum that did seep gas into the plenum from the visible crack.
Special Thanks DingDong

 

[morriscatt]

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UPDATE: Story of SUCCESS!
Ordered new plenum gasket from Randakks, installed and stopped the plenum leak. Put back together, and it would not idle right, however I new it should run ok cause tried out before putting in the new plenum gasket, and it ran great, could hardly hang on in first and second. Replaced plenum gasket and stopped leak. However, would not run well, would not hardly idle like it had a day ago...?? hum.
Tom/Dingdong invited me to ride to his place and sync carbs, ck timing and valve clearance. Carbs were way out of sync, timing about right, valve clearance right on. We scratched out heads after hours of work. I drove home with it bogging down on all hills.
Next morning while staring at it a while with idle way up to keep it running, moved choke linkage and noticed it revved up a little. Took for a ride and it ran great! We then new the choke was sticking on the 2 left carbs cause linkage was a little loose. Yep for 2 weeks the main problem was the stuck choke linkage! Thanks to Tom and his very generous help. I'M NOT SURE I HAVE MET A NICER PERSON IN MY LIFETIME! TOM HELPED A PERFECT STRANGER AFTER READING OF MY PROBLEMS ON THIS SITE. EVERYONE HERE SHOULD BE PROUD OF THE COMRADESHIP CREATED ON THIS SITE! WORDS ARE NOT ENOUGH TO THANK TOM/DINGDONG, HE WILL BE REWARDED IN HEAVEN, I'M SURE. Also thanks to Tom's wife for her patience and kindness. (she even fed me dinner at about 9:30 p.m.) Also thanks to all who responded from this site. It is so wonderful to experience the kindness of all here, reinforces how very nice People can be when their only reward is a thank you!

 

[dingdong]

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Hey! Partick. When I nothings' broke on my bike I start looking for problems. Even if it is on someone elses bike. So was greatful for something to do. Tom