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First of all i want to say is thank you for this site. I have just found it and it has helped me all lot so far by reading in the technical form.

My problem is that i have just bought a 1979 goldwing GL1000 and it does not run, it looks good, but no fire. So far i have found it does not have any points, it has " what i pressume is electronic ignition ". It has spark on # 1 and 2 but not # 3 and 4, i have read in the forums to check the resistense in the plugwires with a ohm meter. What i got was with the plug caps on # 1 and 2 were 25,000 ohms and #3 and 4 24,000 ohms. I also checked all the plug caps seperate and they all were about 5000 ohms, still no spark!!! I removed the coils from the bike put them on the bench on tested the primary wires coming out from the coils, and what i found was one coil was at 2.1 and the other was at 3.9 ohms.

So what do you people think?

p.s not hard to tell i'm a newbie!!!
 

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Did you swap the first and second coils to see if it a bad coil or not? I had a bad one that had the proper resistance (on a car), but gave out a weak, yellow spark at the coil tower, but no spark at the plugs.

One coil fires 1-2 and the other fires 3-4.

Hope this helps. I'm a newbie as well.
 

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Shamus wrote:
First of all i want to say is thank you for this site. I have just found it and it has helped me all lot so far by reading in the technical form.

My problem is that i have just bought a 1979 goldwing GL1000 and it does not run, it looks good, but no fire. So far i have found it does not have any points, it has " what i pressume is electronic ignition ". It has spark on # 1 and 2 but not # 3 and 4, i have read in the forums to check the resistense in the plugwires with a ohm meter. What i got was with the plug caps on # 1 and 2 were 25,000 ohms and #3 and 4 24,000 ohms. I also checked all the plug caps seperate and they all were about 5000 ohms, still no spark!!! I removed the coils from the bike put them on the bench on tested the primary wires coming out from the coils, and what i found was one coil was at 2.1 and the other was at 3.9 ohms.

So what do you people think?

p.s not hard to tell i'm a newbie!!!
Shamus, I don't have specific specs on the 1000 plug wire + cap resistance but usually anything under 30,000 ohms is good-to-go..

On the coil primary resistance, that is a pretty big difference between coils but that doesn't automatically make either bad.. One could have oxidation on the terminals, or your meter connections could be a little off on one of the coils.. Probably in the neighborhood of 2-3 ohms would be close with 3.9 ohms being pretty darn high.

An easy quick test would be to just swap the coils in the bike & see if the spark goes with the coil or stays with the same cylinders..

Another test would be to place a test light on the power wires to the coils then touch the probe end to the trigger terminal of each of the coils, then crank the engine.. If the test light flashes on & off as it is cranked the ign boxes are functioning & the coils is bad. If the light doesn't flash as it is cranked you probably have a problem with either the ign box or hall effect switch where the points used to be.

In any case make darn sure there is power to the coils with the ign switch turned on.

Also remember, when testing for a spark on a coil the other plug or plug wire on that coilmust be touching ground as one sparkplug uses the other plugas the low (ground) to complete the secondary circuit..

Twisty
 

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Shamus wrote:
First of all i want to say is thank you for this site. I have just found it and it has helped me all lot so far by reading in the technical form.

My problem is that i have just bought a 1979 goldwing GL1000 and it does not run, it looks good, but no fire. So far i have found it does not have any points, it has " what i pressume is electronic ignition ". It has spark on # 1 and 2 but not # 3 and 4, i have read in the forums to check the resistense in the plugwires with a ohm meter. What i got was with the plug caps on # 1 and 2 were 25,000 ohms and #3 and 4 24,000 ohms. I also checked all the plug caps seperate and they all were about 5000 ohms, still no spark!!! I removed the coils from the bike put them on the bench on tested the primary wires coming out from the coils, and what i found was one coil was at 2.1 and the other was at 3.9 ohms.

So what do you people think?

p.s not hard to tell i'm a newbie!!!
Do you know if the bike's ignition system has retained the ballast resistor? If the ballast resistor is burned out you will definately get a no spark condition.

You can hotwire the coils to bypass the neutral safety switch and the kill switch to see if the bike startsby feeding the coils positive side with 12 volts. This is for test purposes only, do not drive the bike with these safety features disabled.

If the bike starts with the hotwire you can then look for problems in the ignition switch,kill switch, neutral safety switch or in the wiring and associated components.

Vic
 

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Vic it has good continuous spark. THis is getting frustrating cause my electrical ability only goes so far and the shop rates here are VERYhigh for the average man to pay!!!! and besides i bought the bike as a project so i kinda like to do alot of the work myself, along with advice from the people from this site.

Shayne
 

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Don't get too frustrated Shamus. There's a lot of good people here who can offer excellent advice. It's just a step by step process of elimination before you discover the exact source of the problem.

I came across a similar problem to yours a while back and it turned out to be a defective crank position sensor. Performing the test that Twisty suggested will prove this out.

Vic
 

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Shamus,

Check & re-check ALL electrical connections!! Also make sure the condenser is disconnected.

Ifthe above is good, it sounds like one of two things:

  • The electronic ignition is bad
  • The coil is bad
Check the ignition using the static timing method described in the Clymer manual (http://www.crescentmoonunlimited.com/html/special_iii.html). If the this work for both sides of the ignition, the units good. If not, buy a point set (I can help you there ;)) & change it to points. You can swap out the electronic with point, & time it in about 15-30 minutes.

You can also do as Twisty suggested, use a 12 volt light to see if you're getting voltage to the coil.

That's my long distance diagnoses.:cheeky1:
 

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Thanks Frenchy and everyone else, your advise is alot more then i would have expected. I have narrowed it down " i think " to the dyna s electronic ignition. What i did was remove all of the spark plugs and wires, turned the engine over to see which cylinders fired, then i conected the output wires of the electronic ignition in reverse, turned engine over and "BINGO " the spark transfered to the opposite plugs. According to dynatek,it indicates a bad electronic ignition.

So all i have to do now is # 1 order a new electronic ignition or #2 changeback to points. Any advice?

Shayne
 

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Points are nice if you like to constantly fiddle around with the ignition. Electronic is much more consistent,reliable and maintenance free(until it quits working.)

If it were my bike I would go with the electronic system, but, I'd also keep an original point type breaker plate around just for emergency situations like this. Frenchy's a great guy to deal with and I'm sure that he'll give you excellent service if you get the breaker plate, points and other associated hardware needed to go back to points.

Vic
 

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Thanks for the advice Vic and i think you are right , i'm the install it and leave it type of guy.

Shayne
 

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Shamus wrote:
Thanks Frenchy and everyone else, your advise is alot more then i would have expected. I have narrowed it down " i think " to the dyna s electronic ignition. What i did was remove all of the spark plugs and wires, turned the engine over to see which cylinders fired, then i conected the output wires of the electronic ignition in reverse, turned engine over and "BINGO " the spark transfered to the opposite plugs. According to dynatek,it indicates a bad electronic ignition.

So all i have to do now is # 1 order a new electronic ignition or #2 changeback to points. Any advice?

Shayne
Shayne, you might want to call & talk to Dyna's tec people.. I have worked with them before (on a Harley module) & they will usually send you a troubleshooting chart or talk with you about the failure mode..

You might have a failed ign box as you noted but it could also be as simple as a disconnected power wireor trigger wire to the box, or a problem with the electronicpick up in the old points area. It would be a shame to replace a good ign box because of a broken wire orcorrosion problem..

Twisty
 

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Twisty makes a good point. Since you've determined that it's the module, pop it out & see what you can see. There's not much to the electrically (three wires). Check for a bad connection or broken wire.

Point vs electronic, I put a dyna on both mine & Susan's, & I love em'!! There's a reason that they quit putting them in bikes & cars.............



Good Luck!
 

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Shamus, maybe Twistyor Frenchy knows if anyone makes something like this for an early Wing; http://store.wpsracing.com/crhisisigsyf.html

I installed a setup just like this on a Harley recently and found it to be a true pleasure to work with, fully adjustable, easy to understand and operate. One thing the Harley owner likes about it is that he can change the ignition timing on the road side in about two seconds. This is important to him because he travels all over to remote areas and sometimes the gas doesn't have enough octane to keep his bike from pinging so when he notices the pinging he can just get off the bike, open the cover and use the special tool on his keyring to reset the ignition timing.

If you can't get your existing electronicto operate ask Dyna if they carry something like that Crane systemfor your bike or do an online search for a similar unit.

Vic
 

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:
Shamus, maybe Twistyor Frenchy knows if anyone makes something like this for an early Wing; http://store.wpsracing.com/crhisisigsyf.html

I installed a setup just like this on a Harley recently and found it to be a true pleasure to work with, fully adjustable, easy to understand and operate. One thing the Harley owner likes about it is that he can change the ignition timing on the road side in about two seconds. This is important to him because he travels all over to remote areas and sometimes the gas doesn't have enough octane to keep his bike from pinging so when he notices the pinging he can just get off the bike, open the cover and use the special tool on his keyring to reset the ignition timing.

If you can't get your existing electronicto operate ask Dyna if they carry something like that Crane systemfor your bike or do an online search for a similar unit.

Vic
Vic, I run a similar module to the one you posted on my Harley (Mine is a Daytona brand).. That Daytona I am using is really a sweet toy as I can drop the advance tables out of the module to my computer, then change the advance curve to any custom curve I want, then upload it back into the module.. I'm not sure that is real big advantage but it sure is a great thing to play with.. Probably it's biggest advantage is allowing the ign to be converted to single fire & it also allows multiple sparks at low RPM's for better idle & low RPM ignition of the fuel in the cylinder.

Did the unit you install go under the cam gear cover like the one shown in the picture? I did a lot of research before buying mine & there was some heat related durability problems with a number of those cam gear cover mounted units (not sure if your manufacturer was one of those).. Because of the problems that seemed to follow those cam gear mounted modules I bought a remote unit that used the original cam mounted hall effect switch

I sure wish I could tell you I know of a similar unit for the early Wings as those bikes could sure use a little more spark advance in the under 3000 RPM range but I haven't run across one.. If I could find an adjustable curve module or similar for my 1200 Wing I couldn't write the check fast enough..

Twisty
 

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Q: Did the unit you install go under the cam gear cover like the one shown in the picture? I did a lot of research before buying mine & there was some heat related durability problems with a number of those cam gear cover mounted units (not sure if your manufacturer was one of those).. Because of the problems that seemed to follow those cam gear mounted modules I bought a remote unit that used the original cam mounted hall effect switch

A: Twisty, yes it did go under the cam gear cover andheat was one big concern I had until speaking to Crane's tech folks who explained to me that early units had heat induced problems, but, they had redesigned the later units and had apparently resolved the heat issue. The Harley I installed this unit on has since run up over 16,000 miles without ever missing a beat evenwhen ridingand idling in over 100 degree temperaturesand as you stated the idle is better due to the single fire conversion.

Regarding an adjustable ignition unit for the GL1200, if you can bear with me until I can overcome a few obstacles that prevent me from getting it completed, I should have a fully built andprogrammable (via laptop) electronicignition system for the GL1200. It is based on the Megasquirt fuel injection circuit board. Here's a picture of the electronics if you're interested; http://groups.msn.com/BackYardBuiltGoldwingsBarGrille/vicspics.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=861

Vic
 

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:


Q: Did the unit you install go under the cam gear cover like the one shown in the picture? I did a lot of research before buying mine & there was some heat related durability problems with a number of those cam gear cover mounted units (not sure if your manufacturer was one of those).. Because of the problems that seemed to follow those cam gear mounted modules I bought a remote unit that used the original cam mounted hall effect switch

A: Twisty, yes it did go under the cam gear cover andheat was one big concern I had until speaking to Crane's tech folks who explained to me that early units had heat induced problems, but, they had redesigned the later units and had apparently resolved the heat issue. The Harley I installed this unit on has since run up over 16,000 miles without ever missing a beat evenwhen ridingand idling in over 100 degree temperaturesand as you stated the idle is better due to the single fire conversion.

Regarding an adjustable ignition unit for the GL1200, if you can bear with me until I can overcome a few obstacles that prevent me from getting it completed, I should have a fully built andprogrammable (via laptop) electronicignition system for the GL1200. It is based on the Megasquirt fuel injection circuit board. Here's a picture of the electronics if you're interested; http://groups.msn.com/BackYardBuiltGoldwingsBarGrille/vicspics.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=861

Vic
Vic, I will have to look at the web site you supplied tonight as my laptop here won't allow me toaccess it for some reason.

I would be very interested in that electronic system you are working on (especially if it's programmable). .Let me know when you get it operational or need a field tester..

I have always sort of known that the mid 70's to current carbureted motorcycles have had pretty poor low to mid range ignition advance curves due to emission concerns but didn't realize just how poor until I installed that programmable module on my Harley.. That bike runs like completely different bike at low to part throttle (no change at wide open though).. Did that bike that you installed the Crane on run better at mid range & below? I'm betting it did..

That Crane you installed has about the same advance curves as the Daytona I used ( I believe they use the same chip) except the Daytona also has an E-prom in it to allow a flash to a new curve.. In talking to some ignition savvy shops it seems some of the people that started the Daytona company used to work for Crane ignition..

I have thought (probably the same thought that you had) that adding a little more spark advance in the 1500-3000 RPM range on those old Wings would really wake the part throttle up & probably go a long-long way towards better fuel mileage at lower cruising speeds..

Twisty
 

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Twisty, I'll definately keep you apprised of the ECU I'm working on for the Wing, in fact with your deep technical base I might even call on you for some bits of advice here and there once I'm back into groove and have the time to work on it. One thing I would like to do is to eliminate the wasted spark system on the Wing and make it single fire so any suggestions you can come up with I'd appreciate. I was thinking perhaps one coil per plug and use a hall effect crank sensor and a7 pin GM HEI module to provide a clean signal to the ECU. An EDIS system would be great but it's hard to fit the 36-1 wheel onto the Wing because of space limitations. If you can think of anything better I'm all ears.

The Harley that I put the Crane system on definately ran stronger at low to mid RPM and it also got rid of a cold, low RPM cough that would never go away with the stock ignition. I spent many hours on the carb trying to eliminate the cough and even installed a Yost carbkit but itnever cured the cough even though the bike ran strong and hard up to redline. Once I installed the new Crane HI-4 ignition after the crank pickup failed the bike never ran better. It's a 95 Dyna convertible 1340cc. Two years ago I put new pistons and valves in this bike because it sucked in one of the air filter screws that had worked loose. What a mess one lousy screw can make in an engine. The guy now receives bottles of Loctite as birthday gifts as a direct result of what it cost for me to rebuild the engine for him.

BTW Check your email, I sent you an info sheet on the Crane system so you can compare it to the Daytona system.

Vic
 

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Thanks for all of the great info it really helped! My new modual came in the other day and it works fine, the only problem i have now is timing. I did the static timing like it said in the insructions, my question is is the light supposed to come on exactly at the timing mark? or before the mark? It has a line before the timing mark.

I tried to start the bike and it ran but it ran lke a bag of crap!!! It had lots of fuel comming out from the exaust and would not idle. This bike also sat for a long time so i'm kind of wondering if its not a float problem.

Any advice ? Shayne
 
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