Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Premium Member
1986 Aspencade SEi
Joined
·
362 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A little history:
Last August I blew a head gasket. Since I was a little desperate I tried Blue Diamond Head Gasket Sealant. Immediately wrecked the water pump. I replaced the water pump, but the head gasket blew again in only about 50 miles.

Finally a couple of weeks ago I replaced the head gaskets and cleaned all of the little crystals from the cooling system. I ended up paying a local shop to finish the job because I kept having problems with it and ran out of time.

The first time I rode it was pretty chilly here and it seemed to run just fine. The second time we were two-up and it was warmer (around 70 degrees) and the temperature got very hot (not quite into the red, but close). I checked and the overflow reservoir was empty so I added just water to it. Later I noticed that it was still full of water, so I deemed that the coolant wasn't flowing through the system. I removed the water pump and it "seems" fine. I can turn it with minimal effort and it isn't grinding or rattling at all. Is there another way to check the pump?

Where else should I look? Any ideas at all?
 

·
Premium Member
1985 GL1200 Limited Edition
Joined
·
3,527 Posts
I would take the radiator cap off, make sure the radiators full of coolant, crank the bike and runher till you saw evidance the thermostat has opened. Hint: You'll see coolant start to flow.... Next while your letting her idle keep an eye on the temp and watch for the fan to kick on.

Your problem might be as simple as trapped air in the cooling system and possibly a blown fuse for the fan....
 

·
Premium Member
1986 Aspencade SEi
Joined
·
362 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply Roscoepc. The fan definitely kicked on when it got to the high side of normal, just as it always had.
I already have the water pump out, so I'm not able to run it to confirm the coolant wasn't flowing. But after running it to hot and letting it cool down twice it still had clear cool water in the reservoir, so I'm pretty sure that it isn't. When i drained the radiator to pull the pump I got out a full load of coolant that was clearly green.
I hadn't heard of trapped air in the cooling system. Before I reassemble everything to check for that, is there anything else I should look for? I should have thought of the thermostat, is that located where the upper radiator hose connects to the block? Can I just remove the thermostat and re-install the housing wihout it to see if coolant starts to flow? Is there a way to check the pump besides just seeing that it turns easily?
Thanks for your attention.
 

·
Premium Member
1985 GL1200 Limited Edition
Joined
·
3,527 Posts
It's under the top hose I believe. If you've got the bike tore down with the radiator out you might as well take the thermostat out, put in a pot of water, raise it to a boil and see if the thermostat is opening. That's easier than assembling without the thermostat and then having to put it back in...
 

·
Premium Member
1986 Aspencade SEi
Joined
·
362 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Good point Roscoepc. I don't have the radiator all the way out but I'm not far from that. I'm out of town now until the middle of next week but I'll try that as soon as I get back. Hope it's as simple as that.
If anybody else has any thoughts I'd be happy to hear them.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
27,888 Posts
You should not be able to turn the water pump, it is connected directly to the oil pump shaft and should only turn if the engine is turning.
 

·
Junior Grue
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
You should not be able to turn the water pump, it is connected directly to the oil pump shaft and should only turn if the engine is turning.
Correct.
But from the first post.
coachk64 said:
I removed the water pump and it "seems" fine. I can turn it with minimal effort and it isn't grinding or rattling at all. Is there another way to check the pump?
As Dave said, the water pump is driven by the oil pump shaft and if it's turning with the engine it will circulate coolant. It may leak and it may make horrible noises when the bearings go but as long as it's turning it's pumping.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
27,888 Posts
Correct.
But from the first post. As Dave said, the water pump is driven by the oil pump shaft and if it's turning with the engine it will circulate coolant. It may leak and it may make horrible noises when the bearings go but as long as it's turning it's pumping.
My bad, I just skimmed the post and caught the part about the pump turning freely.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
I want to know how the coolant can be green, the bike overheats, but the recovery bottle stays cool and clear.
 

·
Junior Grue
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
I want to know how the coolant can be green, the bike overheats, but the recovery bottle stays cool and clear.
If the radiator is not full no coolant will be pushed to the recovery tank.:ROFL:
If the hose to the recovery tank is cracked which seems to be common no water will be pulled back into the radiator.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
If the radiator is not full no coolant will be pushed to the recovery tank.:ROFL:
If the hose to the recovery tank is cracked which seems to be common no water will be pulled back into the radiator.
Then let me rephrase...
I want to know how the coolant can be green, the bike overheats, but the recovery bottle stays cool and clear, and no one sees this as a problem.
 

·
Junior Grue
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
Then let me rephrase...
I want to know how the coolant can be green, the bike overheats, but the recovery bottle stays cool and clear, and no one sees this as a problem.
Well you saw it as a problem and so did I.

I guess we're both nobodies.:waving:
 

·
Premium Member
1986 Aspencade SEi
Joined
·
362 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for all the replies guys. The fact that the water in the overflow tank isn't being mixed with the radiator coolant is, I'm sure, a key part of the problem of overheating. I figured that it meant that coolant wasn't circulating, which is why I pulled the water pump.
I think (hope?) Roscoepc is on the mark that the thermostat would be the next logical check so I'll do that next chance I get.
Thanks again for the great input.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
I think (hope?) Roscoepc is on the mark that the thermostat would be the next logical check so I'll do that next chance I get.
roscoe and I go way back. I think the world of Don. He's my buddy, my friend. If he were here right now I'd kiss him full on the lips, but I don't think your problem is the thermostat.
If your bike were overheating, it would be discharging the coolant into the recovery tank. It's not.
So either it's not overheating, or the cap isn't venting, or the recovery hose isn't hooked to the radiator neck.
If the cap were venting, and the hose had a leak, or wasn't attached, you'd have coolant on the ground.
If the cap wasn't venting, you'd be building excess pressure and pushing coolant out the hoses and/or hose clamps.
Your symptoms and observations don't really jive.
roscoe's best advise was to burp the system, but you already had everything apart.
 

·
Premium Member
1986 Aspencade SEi
Joined
·
362 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So, GLHonda, let me get this straight. If the thermostat wasn't opening, when the bike overheated it should have pushed coolant into the overflow, then when it cooled it should have drawn the coolant / water mix into the radiator, even if the thermostat was stuck closed.
It definitely overheated, both by the gauge and just the feel of the heat coming off of the engine. When I put plain water into the overflow tank it just stayed there even after running it a couple of times, never mixing with coolant. And there wasn't any indication of either coolant or water leaking anywhere. When I removed the coolant plug I got out enought coolant to at least fill the radiator.
Would there be an air bubble if the shop that I had finish the head gasket job had just filled the radiator, put the cap on, then just ran it without letting fluid circulate into the block? If that's the case then I should just be able to re-assemble everything, fill the radiator, run it until the thermostat opens, top it off, then cap it off and put some coolant into the overflow.
Does all this sound right?
Man, I hope it's that simple.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
That's always the problem with these scenarios. If you put it back together and still have the same problem, I'm the "dirty no good" that sent you down the wrong road.
This is what I KNOW.


Overflow tanks: They are not overflow tanks. They are storage for the coolant "recovery" system.
Inspect your radiator cap and you'll see TWO seals. One for the top of the radiator neck, and one for the lower portion.
The area in the neck between these two seals is the "operating chamber" that allows the recovery system to work.
As the coolant increases in temperature, the pressure increases, because it is a closed system. To allow for expansion, the radiator cap (lower seal) vents coolant to the recovery bottle.
As the coolant decreases in temperature, it creates a low pressure area in the radiator and the coolant is then drawn back in to the radiator, past the same seal, thus keeping the cooling system "full" at all times.
The seal at the top ensures that the system stays tight. If coolant can leak out, air can leak in. If air can leak in, the coolant will NOT be drawn back into the system. You end up with a FULL bottle, and a LOW radiator. After repetitive "cycles", the system will eventually overheat.
If your seals are badly worn, or cracked, replace the cap. If the seals appear good, have the cap tested to ensure it is operating correctly.
Inspect the sealing surface of the radiator neck for both seals. Make sure there are no "nicks" or low spots that would affect the operation of the system.
Inspect the hose between the radiator neck and the recovery bottle. No leaks, clamps in place?
Commonly overlooked is the upper portion of the neck where the radiator cap "locks" into position. This is a double step. Once the cap is snug, you must PUSH DOWN and TURN the cap for proper seal. Unfortunately, some owners lack "finesse" and jamb the cap opening it or securing it, which causes the tangs on the neck to be deformed. This will result in no seal or poor seal and negatively affect the operation of the recovery system.
 

·
Premium Member
1986 Aspencade SEi
Joined
·
362 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
GLHonda, thanks for the clear explanation. When I get back into town next week I'll first carefully inspect the cap and the neck of the radiator. If I don't see anything wrong I'll just reassemble everything and give it another shot, filling the radiator properly. If I have the same problem I'll at least have gotten some more wrench practice, which is never really wasted time. And trust me, I very much appreciate both your expertise and your willingness to help those who with less experience and knowledge about these systems. I'd never think to cuss you or anybody else on this wonderful forum if your advice turns out to be off the mark.
Thanks again for your time and input.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top