[N5HQ]

was this service bulletin completed?

http://gwrra-wav.org/goldwingbulletins/1500SB1.pdf

Don't know, can't download the pdf. First off I get the message that it cannot be downloaded securely then when I bypass the warning, I cannot download anything. I have all the service bulletins on my computer. Just give me the number and I'll check.

Thanks,
Bill - N5HQ

 

[limpy45]

My 99 GL 1500 used to have to be "wound up" also at first. Then I installed a 90 amp alternator. Now it pops off almost instantly or within a few seconds. I also use the enricher to start unless very warm outside or engine has been run recently. There is also a 'fix' using a relay on connector C54 If I recall correctly down by the right radiator fan.

 

[goldwinger11]

Sounds like a lack of voltage when the starter button is depressed. Try pressing the button for a second and release. Do this a few times and see if there is success. If it starts as you let off the starter then start tracing a corroded connection.

 

[Nitrowing]

My 1500 never started until the button was released... until I fitted the lithium battery. It spins the engine over much faster than ye olde lead acid!

 

[Bellboy40]

Don't know, can't download the pdf. First off I get the message that it cannot be downloaded securely then when I bypass the warning, I cannot download anything. I have all the service bulletins on my computer. Just give me the number and I'll check.

Thanks,
Bill - N5HQ

That service bulletin is "GL1500 #1", Revised: March 1988. It gives the VINs that is applies to. There is a good chance yours was built after those numbers.

 

[N5HQ]

That service bulletin is "GL1500 #1", Revised: March 1988. It gives the VINs that is applies to. There is a good chance yours was built after those numbers.

Yes, that mod was either completed or it came from the factory already done, can't be sure.

Thanks,

Bill - N5HQ

 

[Notewriter]

I have a question for all you GL-1500 gurus. Let me set up the situation then the question.

Ever since I purchased my 1989 GL-1500 I have had one complaint that has bugged the dickens out of me. If the bike sits for a while, a week or two, then the carbs will be dry. Don’t know if the fuel leaks out or evaporates. Doesn’t matter why, they are just dry. Now when I try to start the engine, there is no fuel, so I have to crank and crank until the carburetors are primed, then the engine will start.

Since the fuel shut off valve is vacuum controlled, there is no way to force the fuel into the carburetors. So, I had this great idea. I have the bike torn down right now overhauling the carbs so I thought this would be a great time to address the issue. I researched and found an electric fuel shut off valve that would fit into the limited space where the vacuum shutoff valve was. Another $30.00 for brass fittings and I have it installed. All is well.

Well not really. This is when I realized that the engine control module controls the fuel pump and it only provides power to the pump for about a second when I turn on the ignition switch. No power is provided again until I start cranking the engine. So, I still cannot prime the carburetors unless I’m cranking the engine. All that effort resulted in no gain at all as far as priming the carbs. I probably have accumulated more than 10 hours of cranking that engine over the years trying to start it. I’m wearing out the starter when priming the carburetors. Now I have the option of either leaving it alone, installing a push button switch to bypass the engine control module or controlling the fuel pump and shutoff valve from the ignition circuit.

So, here is my question. Is there any way to adjust the engine control module so that it will provide power longer? Probably not, I’m guessing.

I could connect a relay to the bank angle sensor for safety shutoff in the event of an accident and supply power to the fuel pump and fuel shut off valve whenever the ignition switch is on. Is this a good idea? What do you think would be my best approach? I’m competent with designing and wiring the circuit, I’m just wondering if there is something I’m missing or is there a better way to accomplish my goal?

Okay, I know that was more than one question but I really would appreciate some feedback. Thanks for reading and for goodness sake, ride safe out there.

Many of us have eliminated or bypassed the vacuum shut valve of for various reasons, mostly due to problematic issues. Although there have been concerning comments about fuel being drawn into the engine after shutting down causing a “hyper-lock,” considering the fuel tank is lower than the carburetors, I’ve never actually seen or had this happen. On the other hand, I’ve also installed low pressure in tank pumps and in a couple cases bypassed the “ECU“ and wired the factory OEM fuel pump to the ignition circuit allowing continuous fuel flow when running as long as the pump pressure stays at below 2-3 lbs. As you (and others) certainly are aware, most all of the control valves and switches are for safety and emission reasons and therefore should be altered (or modified) at your own risk but many are redundant, backup systems to assure the OEM is covering their butt too.

 

[gumbyredd]

Have you installed new spark plugs properly gapped? Might help starting.

Do not see where you have done this. Maybe air filter needs replacing.
Clean and tight battery connections?

I knew a guy years ago that put one of those batterys like they used on electric fences wired to his coil for better winter starting. This would have been in the 50s, or 60s. Must have used a switch somehow to turn this added power on for starting, then turn off once going.
gumbyredd

 

[N5HQ]

Many of us have eliminated or bypassed the vacuum shut valve of for various reasons, mostly due to problematic issues. Although there have been concerning comments about fuel being drawn into the engine after shutting down causing a “hyper-lock,” considering the fuel tank is lower than the carburetors, I’ve never actually seen or had this happen. On the other hand, I’ve also installed low pressure in tank pumps and in a couple cases bypassed the “ECU“ and wired the factory OEM fuel pump to the ignition circuit allowing continuous fuel flow when running as long as the pump pressure stays at below 2-3 lbs. As you (and others) certainly are aware, most all of the control valves and switches are for safety and emission reasons and therefore should be altered (or modified) at your own risk but many are redundant, backup systems to assure the OEM is covering their butt too.

Well I think you nailed it with why there are so many ways to kill the engine and make it not start unless everything is just right. I understand why Honda doesn't want to be responsible for something going wrong and someone getting hurt. I just want the engine to start without too much trouble.

I have already replaced the vacuum fuel shut off valve with an electric fuel shut off valve. I'm overhauling the carburetors and replacing a few vacuum lines that don't look and feel just right. The bike will get a full servicing including the timing belts, fuel and air filters and anything else that comes up during the winter while I work on it. I'm also going to bypass the ECM and run the fuel pump and fuel shut off valve from the ignition circuit. DaveO430 suggested also connecting the coils to the same bypass. Something that I think might be a good idea, I'm going to look into that. Comments would be welcome.

Bill - N5HQ

 

[N5HQ]

Have you installed new spark plugs properly gapped? Might help starting.

Do not see where you have done this. Maybe air filter needs replacing.
Clean and tight battery connections?

I knew a guy years ago that put one of those batterys like they used on electric fences wired to his coil for better winter starting. This would have been in the 50s, or 60s. Must have used a switch somehow to turn this added power on for starting, then turn off once going.
gumbyredd

I replaced the plugs at around 60,000 miles, the bike has 78,000 miles on it now. Changing the plugs had no effect on starting and quite honestly the plugs I pulled out looked almost as good as the new ones. Already have a new air filter sitting on the shelf waiting to be installed when I put the bike back together. The battery is good and terminals are clean and tight. Well, they will be tight when I hook the cable back up after the repair is complete.

Thanks for the input,
Bill - N5HQ

 

[Bike...and Dennis]

The safest bike is the one that won't start...? ..

 

[AZgl1800]

I'm also going to bypass the ECM and run the fuel pump and fuel shut off valve from the ignition circuit. DaveO430 suggested also connecting the coils to the same bypass. Something that I think might be a good idea, I'm going to look into that. Comments would be welcome.

Bill - N5HQ

Doing that will improve the Voltage to the Ignition circuits immensely.
the OEM circuit method results in the engine not starting up because the load on the battery goes through too many different small, undersized wires before it can get to the Ignition circuits..

Providing power to the Ignition direct from the battery through a relay will provide Full Battery voltage, and IF the carbs have fuel in them, the engine will be running before you can get your finger off of the Starter Button.

 

[N5HQ]

Doing that will improve the Voltage to the Ignition circuits immensely.
the OEM circuit method results in the engine not starting up because the load on the battery goes through too many different small, undersized wires before it can get to the Ignition circuits..

Providing power to the Ignition direct from the battery through a relay will provide Full Battery voltage, and IF the carbs have fuel in them, the engine will be running before you can get your finger off of the Starter Button.

Thanks for the input. Pretty sure I'm going to locate the feed for the coils and bypass the ECM. I really don't see any problem doing that. It was good enough for my old Flat Head Ford. It started and ran well.

Bill - N5HQ

 

[DenverWinger]

Make sure that if you do the "relay bypass" mod that you do the relay wiring to INCLUDE power to the ECM from the relay, not bypass it.. It's low voltage at the ECM that causes a no spark condition, supplying direct voltage to the coils alone will not help the ECM to trigger them. In fact, if you feed direct power from the relay to the ECM alone, it will fire the coils, even if the coils are not on direct power from the battery.

 

[DaveO430]

Make sure that if you do the "relay bypass" mod that you do the relay wiring to INCLUDE power to the ECM from the relay, not bypass it.. It's low voltage at the ECM that causes a no spark condition, supplying direct voltage to the coils alone will not help the ECM to trigger them. In fact, if you feed direct power from the relay to the ECM alone, it will fire the coils, even if the coils are not on direct power from the battery.

Bypassing the ECM to power the coils directly frees up power to the ECM so it actually gets more voltage.

 

[dwlarson]

I'm not sure that this will help your particular situation... but my '96 Wing used to crank a long time after sitting for awhile. In the spring after being parked all winter, it was a terrible chore to get it started (even with a fully charged battery). After switching from the standard Yuasa battery to a Deka AGM battery, all those starting issues disappeared. Now it starts within 5-7 seconds after sitting for a month, and not too much more after sitting for 5-6 months (though freshly charged).

Oh, and the first one lasted 13 years before it died. And it cranked with no loss of power until that final day. Gotta love that.

 

[N5HQ]

I'm not sure that this will help your particular situation... but my '96 Wing used to crank a long time after sitting for awhile. In the spring after being parked all winter, it was a terrible chore to get it started (even with a fully charged battery). After switching from the standard Yuasa battery to a Deka AGM battery, all those starting issues disappeared. Now it starts within 5-7 seconds after sitting for a month, and not too much more after sitting for 5-6 months (though freshly charged).

Oh, and the first one lasted 13 years before it died. And it cranked with no loss of power until that final day. Gotta love that.

Thanks for the input. It’s always good to hear about a battery that will hold up. I have replaced the battery on this bike more than a few times over the years. I think the best thing I did was to quit using those Harbor Freight battery maintainers and I bought a Yuasa battery maintainer. Haven’t had a battery problem since I started using it.

A lot of people have voiced concern about my battery. Well it is a Super Start Power Sport AGM about 3 years old and going real strong. I have a “Battery Bug” battery monitor installed and it lets me know the condition of the battery whenever I hit the starter. The battery is good.

To date, I have removed the vacuum fuel shut off valve and replaced it with an electric fuel shut off valve. I have bypassed the ECM by putting a relay in the circuit direct from the battery (through a fuse of course), the BLK/WHT wire modification. I also connected the fuel pump and fuel shut off valve to the same relay. So now when the key is in the start or run position there is battery voltage to the coils, fuel pump and fuel shut off valve. After I get the carbs installed, I’ll take a picture or two of the mods.

I have high hopes that one or all of the mods result in a much easier starting motor. Time will tell. I’ll keep you posted. Thanks everyone for the feedback. You guys are great.

 

[DenverWinger]

Only thing that concerns me about that setup is if you happen to tip it over, you'll continue to pump fuel into tipped over carbs and besides the fire risk you stand a good chance of hydrolocking the engine.

I'd give the fuel pump and electric valve a separate relay triggered by the line which used to drive the fuel pump directly. This would come from the ECM on a '90 to '00 wing, not sure on an '89. That way if you tip over the pump will stop and valve close.

 

[AZgl1800]

Only thing that concerns me about that setup is if you happen to tip it over, you'll continue to pump fuel into tipped over carbs and besides the fire risk you stand a good chance of hydrolocking the engine.

I'd give the fuel pump and electric valve a separate relay triggered by the line which used to drive the fuel pump directly. This would come from the ECM on a '90 to '00 wing, not sure on an '89. That way if you tip over the pump will stop and valve close.

That seems as though that would defeat what he wants, to keep the fuel pump running after Key ON.
the ECM shuts the pump off after the initial 'blip' at Key ON.

I too, installed a direct wire from the Key Switch to the fuel pump, thru a toggle switch on my '94SE
that in the days before AGM batteries

 

[DaveO430]

Only thing that concerns me about that setup is if you happen to tip it over, you'll continue to pump fuel into tipped over carbs and besides the fire risk you stand a good chance of hydrolocking the engine.

I'd give the fuel pump and electric valve a separate relay triggered by the line which used to drive the fuel pump directly. This would come from the ECM on a '90 to '00 wing, not sure on an '89. That way if you tip over the pump will stop and valve close.

It should still shut off if the BAS is tripped.