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Working on a bike with my son. Previous maintenance history unknowen, but the bike ran when we got it, but lacking power.

We have replaced timing belts set the points, sync'd the carbs,, other tune up stuff.

The bike is running much stronger, BUT,,,,,

I have been wresting with the timing. Using a timing lite I can not find the timing mark on the flywheel where ever I set the timing.

Withthe procedures using a test light and not a strobe, it looks like the cam that opens the points is 180 degrees out.

In other words, with the F1 timing mark showing on the flywheel, the indexing mark on the points cam is at about the 4 oclock position which is closer to the points for 3/4 cylinder.

IfI use the unmarked cam lob to set up the timing, the bike will run fairly well.

I am not familiar with how it works on the GL, but I know that on an (older) car, the distributor can be set in 180 degrees out and it will still run. Is thatpossible on this bike.

Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated. We are hoping to take a trip to ARin 2 weeks. If I can't get this figured out he cant go.

Thanks,
 

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F-1 is for the left set of points, F-2 for the right.

Use a test light to set them statically, then use a strobeto set the plate.

The test-light will turn on when the points open up. Set the points with a feeler gauge when fully open (.012-.016). Same with the other side. Once you've done that then use the strobe to set the plate.

If you've followed the book for setting the valves then 180° out is impossible as TDC for compression strokewill be had when the #1 intake is full closed. So, when looking for TDC on compression there, you'll be looking for the #1 intake valve to start to close and then keep turning the engine over until youron T-1 at the flywheel. Once all mechanical timing is set, then ignition timing is assured and set per the above.

I wouldn't worry about cam lobes. That's kinda over-thinking it.

...
 

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Thanks. When I said cam lobes I meant the lobes that the points ride on, not the cam shaft. Just my lack of knowledge of these engines showing.

And yes, the F1 mark is for the left.

When I set them statically, the bump (sorry, not sure what to call it) that opens the points, the one with the mark on it, is closer to the right points.

On the cam that opens the points, there is a high point (lobe)that has the factory mark on it. Oposit of that is another lobe. The bike runs when I set static timing on that unmarked lobe, but I can not see a timing mark when I use a strobe to check the timing.

Something is backwards, may be me, but my son and I have been over the static and strobe timing procedures a dozen times and it is not adding up.
 

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Y'know fella's, I've never set the timing with a strobe on the early wings. Set the gap. Put the crank at F1, rotate the plate until the light goes out. Same on F2. The only time I used the light was to check the mechanical advance.

Oh, did you check to make sure the advance wasn't stuck? Or that it's working?
 

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The advance works smooth, no binding, springs in good shape, no rust or corosion etc.....

I like your thinking though. Set it statically and not worry about the timing marks. If I had done that I'd probably be down the road.

Thanks again,
 

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14Keith wrote:
Thanks. When I said cam lobes I meant the lobes that the points ride on, not the cam shaft. Just my lack of knowledge of these engines showing.
No, I know what you meant. Just pointing out that if, by the book, the valves are set then it is impossible to be 180° out as in a smallblock Chevy and that worrying about the cam lobes (for the points, that's what you referenced, right?)is pointless if using a test light, ...meaning just watch the light. Once you're statically set by the testlight then you can move to a dynamic setting of the plate for final advance.

I'm with GL as well. I set it up with a light and adjust the plate to ear and take a ride. The simple trick there is the key on the top of the plate should be within the cut-out range on the housing. Unless you've some really special equipment on theinduction then the key at the top of the plate should be within the housing cut-outs range of adjustment.It's pretty straight-forward really. Just a hair or so clockwise of centered.
 

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Thanks again.

Question; How much faith do you put in the factory mark on the points timing cam lobe?

I mean, I know it is knowen for not being real accurate, but when I did the static timing is when I started worrying. The cam lobe that the bike had been running on was not the one with the mark.
 

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Years ago I had a bike come into the shop that wouldn't run hardly at all. The timing couldn't be set properly… I eventually found that the points cam was 180 degrees out. I removed the lobe, repositioned it and then the timing could be properly set. You'll have to pull the weights out, hold them and then remove the lobe on the shaft. Its a good idea to put a little cam lube on the shaft prior to installing the lobe back into place. Good luck.

I've always used a timing light AND a dwell meter to set the points on 1000's.
 

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14Keith wrote:
...I like your thinking though. Set it statically and not worry about the timing marks. ...

You NEED to worry about them,set it staticly using them.



You can use a timing light, but you don't need to, and as a matterof fact I could never getaWing running better with one VS. the static way.


Please note that you will need to sync the carbs again after you get the timing right.


Bill
 

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Well, I don't put much faith in anything on a engine. I use my tools and put faith in them though.

There's a whole lot of adjusting that can be done to Fire and Time. Mess with one too much and you'll have to mess with the other to compensate and/or start over again. Which brings in day two..., etc..

I can't imagine getting hold of a bike where someone has disassembled the points down to the camshaft without knowing about it, but I suppose it's possible. That being the case, I'd be wondering why.

Afterall, you've said you've timed it all up and it falls at 4 o'clock, or about 180° out. Maybe ray has it nailed...

I don't know that the lobes are not symmetrical. It is stamped for a reason though, so best to set it right.
 

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Thanks Ray,

I did not think of trying that. It looked to me like the indexing hole was on the cam lobes and not the mechanical advance. I'll have to go look.

I can't imagine why someone would have done that initially, but there are new points and condensor on the bike, so someone was is there reciently.

I hate not knowing the history on this bike.
 

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Thanks Bill,



I guess what I meant to say was " set them statically and not worry if I can see the timing marks with a strobe."



When I set the timing statically, I did have the timing mark on the flywheel aligned where it needed to be.



Actaully that is when I saw that the indexing mark on the points cam was way out from where I think it should be. It was at the 4 o'clock position and should have been closer to the 9 o'clock position.
 

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Thanks,

I'm going to try Ray's idea and see how it goes.

I think you are right in that the lobes look symetrical, and I agree that it would be better to have the mark in the right place.

I've got one last chance next weekend to get it up and running right before going to AR the weekend after that.

The good thing through this process is that I found out one of the coils is only putting out 12volts througt the primary winding. I've been hunting a miss in the engine while doing the tuneup, I hope this is it.

Thanksk again,
 
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