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A couple months ago, I blew the right side head gasket. I replaced both left and right gaskets. I also replaced valve stem seals and lapped valves. I put all back together, made adjustments, and found another problem.

I heard load whining from the alternator area (inside). I thought it was the starter clutch, turned out to be the rotor magnet assy. I removed engine, took off the back cover, replaced rotor and reassembled.

I took it for a test ride about 15 miles to warm it up. It smoked pretty much on warmup, then smoking went away. I checked the oil level in the driveway and made it right. I took it for a ride to work - 110 miles round trip. It smoked pretty much both times I started it, then smoke went away. I checked the oil again - down 2 quarts!

I'm not sure what could be off. I did a compression check with it cold, wide open throttle:
1 and 3 were both 85, 2 was 65, 4 was 75. I had to make an adapter for my gauge from an old spark plug, so I'm not sure the numbers are right, but they should still read the same. I will recheck the valve clearances again, maybe even put air into the cylinders and see if I hear leaking.

Any other advice? No puddles on the driveway, I don't see any external leaks. The left side does have more smoke than the right, but both smoke some. The coolant level seems to be OK, and the oil is nice and clean, doesn't seem to be contaminated with water.
 

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I think the compression values are a tad bit low. As I recall others saying, they should be in the 115# range or higher.

Possibly the rings are stuck? I would put a 1/2 can of Sea foam in the oil and run that for a 100 miles or so. Drain it out and put in new oil and new filter.

Just keep riding it, the older wings seem to repair themselves when you exercise them a lot.

Some real gurus will be along with personal experience for you to listen too.
 

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Can you tell us anything about your Wing, did you just get it? Has it been lying up for a while? Is it your regular machine and you had to do this work because the gasket blew and if so what was your fuel consumption before the strip down?

Your compression figures are way down. As you have lapped all the valves in both heads it is unlikely but possible that you are losing pressure there. Sometimes after a regrind you can have a loss of compression but it usually settles in quite fast. Did you replace the valve springs? Compression pressures in a new engine are around 150 psi per cylinder, in a higher mileage engine 95 to 120 is not unusual, more like 110 per cylinder. At 65 to 80psi I would suggest a rebore is on the cards. You could just replace the rings but for the cost of the strip down gaskets etcetera a bore new pistons and rings maybe a cheaper alternative in the long run.
 

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I agree with the rings and low pressure. How many miles on the bike?
 

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Hi Brian

I am wondering if the oil burning is a result of something going wrong with the head gasket change. If it wasnt burning before the change it shouldnt after. Heads were not warped by any chance .

Tunnow
 

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I'd make sure the compression numbers are accurate...

If they are, as is, then I'd suspect rings for sure.
 

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I ride a lot, maybe 20k a year. Bike was fine before head gasket blew, great mileage and only burned a little oil, maybe 1 quart per 1000-1500 miles. I also had a small leak from the rear case gasket. (has been fixed)

The bike runs awesome, carbs are in tip-top shape with lots of power and idles perfect at 900 rpm, really sounds nice.

I doubt it's the rings as I did the compression test while it was cold with my homemade adapter. The number isn't the real issue, it's the change in numbers that are the problem. Piston number 2 did have some water marks on the bottom of the hole, that could be some of the issue.

I 'll just have to go over the whole top end again and see if I can find something. If I determine it's the lower end, I'll have to just get a used engine sometime. Riding season is almost over here anyway. The heads seem to be the most obvious problem area, since that was the area I was working on. The exhaust guides were a tiny little bit loose, I'm trying to understand how oil could get burned from that?
 

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Check the crankcase ventilation tube to be sure it is not pinched or blocked also the oil return passages from the heads.
 

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Those compression readings are quite low. The minimum number is 140 but mine runs OK at 130. I've heard but don't know for sure that anything less than 90 isn't going to provide anything close to normal performance. The compression standard is for an engine at normal operating temperature.



Yes you could have gotten something wraong in changing the head gaskets that could cause loss of compression and burning oil. If the head gasket change is allowing oil loss you will see oil deposits on the plugs.



There is a tool called a Leak Down Guage that is used to diagnosis compression issues. You'll also need an air compressor. There is a hose that threads into the spark plug hole, a couple of gauges and a supply hose that goes to the compressor. You get each piston to the top of the compression stroke and lock the engine by blocking the rear wheel with it in gear. Then you shoot the compressed air in at some pressure and should see about 85% of the pressure being maintained to indicate no problems. The test is then run on the remaining cylinders. If the pressure is dropping you would then look to determine where it coming out. If you find it coming out the exhaust pipes you have bad exhaust valves,If it comes out the carbs you have bad intake valves and if it comes out the crankcase vent you have bad piston rings.



I've also heard of people taking old spark plugs, removing the ceramic top and center electrode and then threading the plug base to insert a hose connector. They would then lock the engine at the top of the compression stroke,pump in the air and check to see where it escapes. Your going to lose a little through the rings on all engines but not much through the valves. It would require some judgement to determine if the rings were suspect with this method. And by the way a blown head gasket could also allow air into the crankcase just like bad rings and could also push air into the water jacket.



Hope this helps! LOL!
 

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I would add 1 bottle of ATF and kept it running around 3-4K RPM on driveway to clean rings. keep RPM up and down. Don't ride with so much ATF. If you want to ride add half bottle.
 

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I'm not familiar with the 1100cc engine, just the 1200. There are two very small "O"rings in the 1200 between the head and block where the oil passes through a pin to the head gasket.

Is this a possibility on the 1100? Check an exploded view in your parts manual.
 

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i just replaced the motor on my wing and i got compression check on the bench before i installed it just hooked a battery to the starter to spin it over, i had around 160psi on all 4 cylinders according to the book thats as good as you can get anything lower than 100psi i'd be worried
 

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Did you check the compression with the throttle wide open? Throttle closed will cause very low readings.
 

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Tonight I took the right valve cover off, spun engine by hand until valves were closed. I put about 80 psi into #2 and heard air out both exhaust and intakes. I moved the air to #4 and had lots of air out the exhaust, none from the intake. I didn't check 1&3 yet. The valves were supposed to be closed - I could put a .004 gauge under the rocker. So that leaves bad valves or seats. I did try lapping them for the first time, I can't see that I did anything wrong. I did them 1 at a time, keeping them in there respective holes, and lapping by hand.

I guess I get to take the heads off again and see whats what. No way to do anything to the valves without removing the head, which means new gaskets, radiator and timing belts off, the whole deal. This really sucks - I'm beginning to not like this bike very much! If I wanted to work on it all the time, I'd have bought a Harley!
 

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If you took off the right valve cover and put air in #2 and 4 how did you know the valves were closed on those cylinders? 2 & 4 are on the left.
 

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When you lap valves check pattern on valves and seats. You should see circles on valves and seats. Or you can bring heads to machine shop. Last time I paid 120 for 12 valves and 2 heads resurfacing.
 

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I'm sure you could reuse those gaskets again. Yes, I know that they crush as they are intended to when you assemble them but you have a choice, either smear a very thin layer of RTV over both sides of the gasket, and I mean smear, and let it dry. You have to make sure that none of it is squished into one of the oil ways, you could use oil but I prefer the RTV.
When the engine bolts are torqued down they seal as good as new. Also ensure that any dowels and "O" rings are fitted too. Usually the gaskets take some time to settle in and then over a year or so they bake into place. The older gaskets were made of asbestos with a carbon type coating might be lead. Maybe these replacement ones are made of nobestos, who knows?

More recent gaskets have a silicone type surface on the gaskets which are a use once variety. Once the engine is torqued the gaskets deform and bond the components together.
 

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Try to lap them again...

If it were me, before and after lapping, and when thoroughly clean, I would do this:

Prepare to lap, but with no compound....
Re-clean seat area and valve surface with rubbing alcohol to ensure no residue.
Use a Sharpee marker on the seat area. Mark so that it is absolutely black and has a (xx) micron build-up.
Now hand lap as usual, but with less pressure and with only a few passes through the hands at a time. You may get to where you can spin through a dozen passesafter the first few using normal pressure. Depends on the resulting pattern.
Now observe the pattern that is left with a magnifying glass....
If you've got that kind of air coming out, you should be able to see it.
Remove any left over Sharpee markings with Super Glue Remover if desired.
 

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squirt mmo in cyl. at piston comp. test again, if it goes up suspect rings, if not then valves. good luck
 

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brianinmaine wrote:
Tonight I took the right valve cover off, spun engine by hand until valves were closed. I put about 80 psi into #2 and heard air out both exhaust and intakes. I moved the air to #4 and had lots of air out the exhaust, none from the intake. I didn't check 1&3 yet. The valves were supposed to be closed - I could put a .004 gauge under the rocker. So that leaves bad valves or seats. I did try lapping them for the first time, I can't see that I did anything wrong. I did them 1 at a time, keeping them in there respective holes, and lapping by hand.

I guess I get to take the heads off again and see whats what. No way to do anything to the valves without removing the head, which means new gaskets, radiator and timing belts off, the whole deal. This really sucks - I'm beginning to not like this bike very much! If I wanted to work on it all the time, I'd have bought a Harley!
If you bought a Harley, you would be working on that bike even more. I don't think a Harley's engine would last beyond 100K miles without burning up which means valves and rings.

Ooops. Doink. I read the last statement wrong. I thought you wanted to buy a Harley so you wouldn't have to work on them.:action:
 
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