[teacher]

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Ok guys, heres the deal. I decided it was time for a new post as the original was get to long (GL1100 no compression). Got the new heads on set the timing but it still would not start. So, I took the carbs off and clean them, though they have not be run since the last topic, put them back on the wing and no start. It would back fire through the carbs and act like it want to start but would not. I pulled #1 spark plug, placed it back on the ignition wire and laid it on the valve cover. With the kill switch in the off position I turned the engine over and could see no spark at the end of the spark plug. I did the same with the #3 and #2 and still nothing. Could this be the ignition coil, and is there a post that will describe testing procedures for the coil? Thanks!

 

[mag]

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Check the main fuse, beside the battery first. If that goes, no starty. Also, sounds dumb, but make sure the kill switch is in the on position. It's rare both coils would go. Your ignition unit could have packed it in too. That happened to me, i had electronic and it died.

 

[exavid]

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teacher wrote:

Ok guys, heres the deal. I decided it was time for a new post as the original was get to long (GL1100 no compression). Got the new heads on set the timing but it still would not start. So, I took the carbs off and clean them, though they have not be run since the last topic, put them back on the wing and no start. It would back fire through the carbs and act like it want to start but would not. I pulled #1 spark plug, placed it back on the ignition wire and laid it on the valve cover. With the kill switch in the off position I turned the engine over and could see no spark at the end of the spark plug. I did the same with the #3 and #2 and still nothing. Could this be the ignition coil, and is there a post that will describe testing procedures for the coil? Thanks!

Did you mean you had the kill switch off?

 

[teacher]

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exavid wrote:

teacher wrote:

Ok guys, heres the deal. I decided it was time for a new post as the original was get to long (GL1100 no compression). Got the new heads on set the timing but it still would not start. So, I took the carbs off and clean them, though they have not be run since the last topic, put them back on the wing and no start. It would back fire through the carbs and act like it want to start but would not. I pulled #1 spark plug, placed it back on the ignition wire and laid it on the valve cover. With the kill switch in the off position I turned the engine over and could see no spark at the end of the spark plug. I did the same with the #3 and #2 and still nothing. Could this be the ignition coil, and is there a post that will describe testing procedures for the coil? Thanks!

Did you mean you had the kill switch off?

thank you exavid. Yes, the kill switch off to prevent the engine from starting. I had put a new set of ignition wires on. I found that the set I use on my Dodge pickup would work, but didn't know if they would handle the load. They did as I had spark!

But after I got the heads on and the engine would not start I change the Wire leads back to the orginals and no spark. I think this am I'll change #1 & #2 wire leads back to the dodge leads and see it I have spark. If not I'm guessing the coil is bad.

 

[beezer]

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Well,with the kill switch in the OFF position there won't be a spark.If the engine was backfiring while cranking, I'd say you had spark but the ignition or valve timing is not set properly. Hope this helps.

Beazer

 

[teacher]

imported post

beezer
Member


Well,with the kill switch in the OFF position there won't be a spark.



thanks beezer, I think I knew that. I don't know? I'm so confused at this point I don't have a clue what I'm doing. It seems everytime I do something to the wing to get it going I creates another problem. "one problem begets another problem" or something like that.

I'll go out and try it with Kill switch on or off or in the on position, what the hell!

Hopefuly its not the coils. Its not the cost of the parts that get to me, it's getting the part here in a timly fashion. If I order a coil I'm looking at 7-10 days to get it and thats the way its been since July! And beleive or not this all started with a knock in the engine that turned out to be the starter chain hitting the inside case!

 

[SilverDave]

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 Teacher ...... IMHO you need to stand back ... take 10 deep breaths... and then ( After the shot of Jack daniels ...lol)  get another  GWRRA , or Goldwing owner to help you...Slowly, and methodically, writing everything down...Starting at the battery, the fusible link, and all the fuses to the coils... It sounds to me like the  Electronic ignition unit... but ... Why did you change to dodge  Wires /forums/images/emoticons/tongue.gif? were the old wires looking bad... ??? I was thinking , since they have been on and off, and on ... they may not be fastened to the coil completely... SilverDave /forums/images/emoticons/emoticonsxtra/cooldj.gif

 

[exavid]

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teacher wrote:

I found that the set I use on my Dodge pickup would work, but didn't know if they would handle the load.

Don't do that, now you have two vehicles that won't run! Seriously though the type of ignition wires can differ, the Dodge most likely has high resistance wires to reduce RFI and the bike may not. If the bike is supposed to have low resistance wires the truck's wires will cause a very weak spark.

 

[teacher]

imported post

SilverDave
( After the shot of Jack daniels ...lol)

the Jack sounds good!

exavid

truck's wires will cause a very weak spark

I changed to the dodge wires because they would fit, and I was told by the dealership that the coil and wires were not available? The orginal wire to #2 was too short and didn't make complete contact with the spark plug and The #3 wire was broken at the end.

The dodge wire do produce a spark but not much. I've changed back to the orginal wires. I think this is part of the problem.

I went to Auto Zone and bought a good Compression Tester that will give better results. but I think compression is ok. I'm getting fuel through the fuel pump and out to the carbs. so I assume I got fuel. However it acts like not enough fuel.

I acts like it wants to start but just never makes it. And when I choke it, it will back fire or miss through the top of the carbs or at the air box connection. If I spray engine starter in the air chamber ( I don't like to do that) I still get nothing. The only thing I haven't done to the carbs is seperate them and clean in ProChem.

I did have to put a new wiring harness on the bike as when I got it several wires, tial light wire and others (brown w/white) were fried.

As I said in the beginning, this bike was running very well until I took the engine apart to fix a knock.

 

[twisty]

imported post

teacher wrote:

SilverDave
( After the shot of Jack daniels ...lol)

the Jack sounds good!

exavid

truck's wires will cause a very weak spark

I changed to the dodge wires because they would fit, and I was told by the dealership that the coil and wires were not available? The orginal wire to #2 was too short and didn't make complete contact with the spark plug and The #3 wire was broken at the end.

The dodge wire do produce a spark but not much. I've changed back to the orginal wires. I think this is part of the problem.

I went to Auto Zone and bought a good Compression Tester that will give better results. but I think compression is ok. I'm getting fuel through the fuel pump and out to the carbs. so I assume I got fuel. However it acts like not enough fuel.

I acts like it wants to start but just never makes it. And when I choke it, it will back fire or miss through the top of the carbs or at the air box connection. If I spray engine starter in the air chamber ( I don't like to do that) I still get nothing. The only thing I haven't done to the carbs is seperate them and clean in ProChem.

I did have to put a new wiring harness on the bike as when I got it several wires, tial light wire and others (brown w/white) were fried.

As I said in the beginning, this bike was running very well until I took the engine apart to fix a knock.

Butch, a QUICK test for enough spark to start that engine is to take a KNOWN GOOD spark plug (it doesn't have to be for that Wing engine) & open the plug electrode gap to 3/16" (use a 3/16" drill bit as a gap gauge). Then install in one plug wire at a time & lay on the cyl head then crank the engine.. If you get a bluish colored spark to jump that 3/16" gap repeatedly you have enough spark.. Make sure the other plugs are installed with the wires on, or at least touching the engine metal as one plug uses the other plug on that coil for a spark return path (basically a ground)..

BE SURE your battery has a full charge,, if it's voltage pulls low during cranking you will get a very poor spark..

If you used those truck TVRS resistor wires & the original plug resistor caps that were on your original wires you will have a lot of combined wire resistance but should still get a spark.. If you have an ohmmeter, measure from the spark plug cap on the #1 wire through the coil & to the spark plug cap on the #2 wire, if over 30,000 ohms you have too much resistance.. Then do the same on the rear two wires (#3 to #4)..

One more thing.. make sure you have the correct coil & plug wires going to the correct cylinders.. The front two cylinders are on one coil & the rear two cylinders are on the other coil.. Also be sure the yellow/blue & blue/yellow coil trigger wires are on the correct coils or it will never start..

Twisty

 

[exavid]

imported post

I'd also recommend a compression check just to make sure of the valves and valve timing. As Twisty mentioned make sure the right wires are going to the coils, this means both the high tension and the DC power wires. It sounds a lot like the plugs aren't firing at the right time, possibly misconnected. The Kill Switch does just that, there will be no spark with it off.

 

[teacher]

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hi twisty & exavid,

I just finished a compression test on cylinder #1=123 ft/pb? I will do the other 3 in the am as it is to dark and the mosquitos' to bad!

As far as the coil a the correct ignition wires going to the right cylinders, I could have gotten them out of order. I will also check that out in the am. Twisty that is great info :clappern the ignition wires and where they go. That is a big help. I do have the manual on CD now but I have had my head so far up the tail pipe of my wing I haven't done the bacis, like read the book:baffled:!

I will do all the testing in the am and report back as to the out come. I have been thinking fuel but now I think I may have crossed a wire or two. Can't wait to try all!

 

[exavid]

imported post

Just don't forget to go have a beer or whatever when it gets confusing, getting away from it for awhile is the only way to keep from digging yourself in to a deeper hole, leastaways that's how it works for me.

 

[Silicon Sam]

imported post

123 pounds of compression is low. Are you holding the throttle wide open while cranking the engine over? Or having the carbs off will suffice of course. My '83 with 43K miles on it almost tops out at 170 psi. Which is the factory pressure.

I got my new set of wires and NGK boots from a guy that sells bike parts in Lewisville, just North of Dallas. There is also places that sell the proper copper core wire. If you need the guys number, holler. I found them on ebay. I'll see if I see his auctions, and I'll post a link here.....


I'd help if I could. I am driving back and forth from Houston to Austin, but not going near Alvin anytime soon.

Raymond

 

[exavid]

imported post

Silicon Sam wrote:

123 pounds of compression is low. Are you holding the throttle wide open while cranking the engine over? Or having the carbs off will suffice of course. My '83 with 43K miles on it almost tops out at 170 psi. Which is the factory pressure.

Raymond

Teacher you had all the plugs out too when you checked the compression? It also helps to jump a larger battery in to make sure you get full cranking speed.

 

[twisty]

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teacher wrote:

hi twisty & exavid,

I just finished a compression test on cylinder #1=123 ft/pb? I will do the other 3 in the am as it is to dark and the mosquitos' to bad!

As far as the coil a the correct ignition wires going to the right cylinders, I could have gotten them out of order. I will also check that out in the am. Twisty that is great info :clappern the ignition wires and where they go. That is a big help. I do have the manual on CD now but I have had my head so far up the tail pipe of my wing I haven't done the bacis, like read the book:baffled:!

I will do all the testing in the am and report back as to the out come. I have been thinking fuel but now I think I may have crossed a wire or two. Can't wait to try all!

Teacher, at 123# compression that is a little on the low side but on a cold engine that hasn't been run in a while probably is about right.. It should start OK at 123#.. Re-run the compression test after the engine has been run in for a while.. Also run the other cylinders.. Testing with a closed throttle can also lower the reading slightly so be sure to crack the throttle for the final test.

If theHOTcompression stays on the low side maybe re-check the cam belt timing..

Twisty

 

[teacher]

imported post

Ok guys, I'll start out with all that I've done"
1. Checked the compression on all four cylinders with all plugs out ,throttle open, engine cold (as it won't start) #[email protected], #[email protected], #[email protected], and #[email protected].

2.Placed ignition wires @ Left coil-front cylinders ,Right coil-rear cylinder and vise/versa?.

3. Checked the fuel pump to make sure that fuel was going to the carbs.

4. Checked (visually) each spark plug to see if I had spark at each plug, and I do.

5. I've checked and rechecked the timing (visually) and it appears to be dead on.

I get the same results: Engine wants to start and backfires through the air chamber.

I think I have electronic ignition as have two square boxes about the size of a cig pack that are located near the coils and plugs into the wiring harness.

I don't have an ohmmeter but think I will go and invest in one.

 

[twisty]

imported post

teacher wrote:

Ok guys, I'll start out with all that I've done"
1. Checked the compression on all four cylinders with all plugs out ,throttle open, engine cold (as it won't start) #[email protected], #[email protected], #[email protected], and #[email protected].

2.Placed ignition wires @ Left coil-front cylinders ,Right coil-rear cylinder and vise/versa?.

3. Checked the fuel pump to make sure that fuel was going to the carbs.

4. Checked (visually) each spark plug to see if I had spark at each plug, and I do.

5. I've checked and rechecked the timing (visually) and it appears to be dead on.

I get the same results: Engine wants to start and backfires through the air chamber.

I think I have electronic ignition as have two square boxes about the size of a cig pack that are located near the coils and plugs into the wiring harness.

I don't have an ohmmeter but think I will go and invest in one.

Teacher, your compression sounds good so probably your timing belts are on correctly.. If you have fuel & spark that either leaves an ignition timing problem, or too much or too little fuel, or fouled spark plugs (oh yes they can do that- give you a good spark when out of the engine but fail to produce a sufficient spark when under compression)..

I guess your next move should be to bring each cylinder up on compression (use your finger in the plug hole) thenuse a very soft wire in through the spark plug hole & find close to exact TDC on each cylinder (one at a time),, then when TDC per cylinder is found mark the camgear to cyl head, or center cam gear to block, or wherever you can match 2 moving parts..

Then installa timing light on each cylinder, crank it & see if you are getting a spark as that cylinders marks are close to lining up.. If ALL cylinders are sparking at ornear TDC on COMPRESSION then you either have a weak spark, bad spark plugs, or a fuel delivery, mixture, or volatility problem..

Twisty

 

[teacher]

imported post

thanks twisty,

I'm so down at this point I'm not sure what to do! What could I have done to the engine for it not to start? I'm talk about a running wing before I took the engine apart! I'm sure I put the wiring harness on correctly. I know the carbs are good. The spark plugs are new and the timing is dead on. It has to be in the ignition timing or the fuel supply. Even it a spray starter fluid in the air chamber it won't start! Is there a test for the coil I can try to determine if the spark is good enough. I tried the spark plug 3/16" gap and no spark. Is that it? I don't know. Is it time to cut my loses and part this wing out or is there hope for this wing rider?

 

[twisty]

imported post

teacher wrote:

thanks twisty,

I'm so down at this point I'm not sure what to do! What could I have done to the engine for it not to start? I'm talk about a running wing before I took the engine apart! I'm sure I put the wiring harness on correctly. I know the carbs are good. The spark plugs are new and the timing is dead on. It has to be in the ignition timing or the fuel supply. Even it a spray starter fluid in the air chamber it won't start! Is there a test for the coil I can try to determine if the spark is good enough. I tried the spark plug 3/16" gap and no spark. Is that it? I don't know. Is it time to cut my loses and part this wing out or is there hope for this wing rider?

Teacher, you said:

I tried the spark plug 3/16" gap and no spark. Is that it?

That "probably" most certainly is!! You need a GOOD snappy spark across that 3/16" plug gapfor it to start.. The coils on that bike should push a spark acrossa 1/4" plus gap so if it won't even go 3/16" you have a spark problem.. YOU MUST have the opposite plug on the coil being tested either installed or at least grounded to the cyl head or you won't get much of a spark as the opposite plug is the ground path for the tested plug.

IF, you have the opposite plug grounded & still can't get a 3/16" spark you have a "lack of spark problem"..

First; make sure the battery is charged up as a low voltage battery won't leave enough power to BOTH crank the engine & power the ign coils..

Maybe do that resistance test on the entire secondary on each coil (one plug cap all theway across to theopposite plug cap on that coil should be under 30,000 ohm.

Are you still using those truck plug wires? If so maybe look at that area..

If you have a voltmeter check the coil supply voltage during cranking (probably needs to be over 10 volts or more to get a decent spark)..

If it ran before & not now it's probably something simple.....

Twisty