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After getting onto the freeway at doing about 65-70, my 82 GL1100i started surging/pulsing. If I release the throttle, with clutch in, the motor would instantly die out. I noticed that the clear fuel filter that I'd put in just a few weeks ago was pretty dirty, rust, dirt, etc, but especially noticed that it was empty despite a full tank of gas.

Paying close attention, even after replacing the filter, I thought that the motor was cutting out due to lack of fuel, it pulling more gas than could be supplied. At first start of the day, the filter is visibly full, but by the time I made it to the freeway, the fuel filter (not oem) was drained most of the way. Hitting the speed limit, within a few minutes, the pulsing started, and same condition as with the old filter. Since the filter was empty, I thought it must have been the supply from the tank, maybe a stopped up pickup tube, or clogged petcock... When the filter was empty, the trick of fuel to displace the air was a slow process--with motor off, taking about 1 hour to refill. It turns out, it wasn't that the fuel wasn't being supplied fast enough, rather, I think the air had nowhere to go.

I tapped a small vent hold into the filter, as a test, and with vent open, the filter fills quickly, however didn't solve the surging problem. Once the surging started, it kept on until the bike was stopped for a while, probably the bowls needed time to recuperate.

Took apart the pump, cleaned it, even though it was moving fluids as expected, all was fine inside.

Now, I've begun taking the carbe apart, and as I'd been suspecting, they need a full workout. I'd just gotten this bike a little over a month ago, and SeaFoam treatments and soaks had gotten it running fairly good. I thought I'd gotten away without taking this "sat in the backyard for a year" bike's carbs. Clearly, with carbs out, and taking apart #1, it's got lotsa clogging. The small jet though, is stuck in the tube, with no 'slot' for a driver--it was smooth and I can't yet extract it. I pulled #4 apart, it too had lotsa gunk/chunks, etc. I did get the small jet out just fine on this one. Both big and small jets had the teeny tiny holes plugged up pretty solid.

On the small jet of #4, the main channel was completely blocked--very solidly. It is supposed to go thruough, right, like the big jet? It took some effort, but I did get an opening all the way through the small jet.

Just want to confirm, the small jet DOES go all the way through, right? The rest of the components inside the two carbs actually look pretty new, the float bowl gasket, float pin, and other parts, while a little caked with crud, were, once cleaned up, very tactile and resilient. The carbs must have been overhauled/rebuilt recently (perhaps just before the 1 year backyard tour. I'll be reusing the existing runners, especially if cyl 2 & 3 look as new.

So, the small jet is still stuck in #1, with it's slotless head all the way in the channel. IT must have been worn smooth from someone's previous efforts to remove it.



Any tips to get this small jet out without a scredriver slot? Gonna give it and easy-out attempt.



If I do get the small jet out OK, I'll have to dremel a slot into it to keep it useable. Will the functionality of the small jet be impacted by the effective removal of the top 1/4" of material? If not, I'll groove a new slot, and move on. If it IS impacted bya haing a shorter top, anyone know of a Phoenix area cycle shop that might have thison the shelf/instock? I need one pretty quick, this bike's my daily ride to work. Anyone have a small jet for a gl1100 82 that they cna send? Happy to pay if you've got one.

Bob
 

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I should probably know about the jets as many times as I had mine off to get them right but just can't remember. If you can get one carb apart you can examine it and find out how the others are as they all have the same body and jets. With carbs that plugged up you'll be glad you got them cleaned out when you're done. I wouldn't recommend reinstalling any jet that has been slotted for removal. You'll probably have to order any parts you need for the carbs. Thay are pretty much unique to the 1100's and nobody will stock parts as the age makes them slow sellers.

The other problem I'll bet you have is a badly rusted gas tank interior. If your fuel filter is empting as you run there is something blocking the line or you have a leak in it somewhere. Pull the gas cap and shine a light in it and you'll probably see rust. As long as the fuel level isn't too high you can pull the sending unit out and get a better look and can even see the intake screens a the back of the tank. If you have rust in the tank it will get past any filter on the market and replug your carbs.

Oh, another thought. You gas cap was vented at sometime in the past but may be plugged now. When you pull it off at the gas pump do you hear a WHOOSH of air rushing in.
 

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Turns out that the slow jet is a fairly standard #35, which I picked up at a Harley repair shop for a few bucks. Yeah, I didn't think that the re-slotted jet would be a wise choice.

Yes, there is a light rusting inside the tank, which I've almost got cleaned out. Need to either coat with POR or similar, but I'm thinking that I'll just have a radiator shop clean and coat. Just dreading ripping apart the rear end to get this baby out.

When I open the gas cap, yes, there is a whooshing sound, but not sure if it's a sucking in or a blowing out--I thought this was a pressurized fuel system where the tank is charge with a vacuum line? For that reason, I'd expect to hear a whooshing OUT and the pressure is release. Directly from the petcock, with lines removed, the tank drains rapidly, a pencil sized stream, and in my estimation, while I haven't measured actual flow rate, it's far in excess of what the engine would actually consume.

And definitely, I've been putting off the carb dissassembly, but in the back of my mind, I knew it was inevitable. Condsidering that the three other carb slow jets were extremely clogged, I can't wait to get her back together again. She ran pretty well up till the other day, so I'm expecting a purring kitten when I'm done :)

Bob
 

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Bob

It sounds like you have a good enough fuel flow from the tank. I wouldn't sweat the half full fuel filter I have seen that many times on bikes and cars that run perfectly fine. Tom
 

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Sounds to me like a couple things are happening here, and it revolves around the rust in your tank.

1.) Rust is jamming the pickup tubes and screens
2.) Rust smaller than 2 microns has blown past your fuel filter and done damage to the diaphragm of your fuel pump
3.) Rust smaller than 2 microns has jammed passages in the carb bodies full and fuel will not flow through them properly.

Tank rust. Simple solution.

http://www.rusteco.com

DO NOT use POR and coat the inside of the tank. What you're doing is trading rust flakes today for flakes of whatever coating you put inside in a year or two when the crap starts to come off.

Do a forum search for Rusteco, you'll find that I used it about 4 years ago, no return of the rust, another forum member has used it, and found it works just as easy as I say it does. No removing the tank, no acid, no need for gloves, just pour it in, shop vac it out 72 hours later, rinse, fill and go.

After you've done that, the absolute BEST advice I can give you is to get hold of Classic Cycle Parts. For about $400 you send your carb deck, they disassemble them clear down to the bodies. Anything that can be removed, is...and it's all thrown away. They then run the bodies through an ultrasonic cleaner to get absolutely EVERYTHING out of them. Then they reassemble them with all brand new Honda Spec parts. They set the levels of the brand new floats, bench balance them, and send them back to you...all that's left to do is mount them, sync them, and ride.

Trust me on this...It's a little money to spend...but in the terms of frustration not had, and doing things the right way to end all problems, it's money VERY well spent.

Mike
 

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I believe you have 2 different years of carbs. The 80-81s and I think 82s had pressed in low speed jets, no screw driver slot. I don't think it will matter once you get them cleaned out except the one with the pressed in jet will be adjusted differently.
 

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hi BOB..WAITING FOR THAT EMAIL..RE A RIDE..BUT I guess not for a while..anyway..

This is from Randakk's site..FYI about those jets..
Pucks:
"GL1100 carb pucks are pressed in. Do NOT try to remove them!!!"
Idle Jets:
"GL1100 carbs had two different types of idle jets. The '80 and '81 carbs have the idle jets pressed into the carb bodies while the '82 and '83 carbs have removable idle jets. Do NOT try to remove the pressed in idle jets!!! They must be cleaned in place."


full info here:


http://www.randakks.com/TechTips.htm#46





 

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Alas Gents, I've completely and scrutinously rebuilt these carbs. Bob's Used cycle has some new air cutoff diaphragms as well as carb kits.

This being an 82, the slow jets are sized 35--removeable, and all have been replaced. I had to drill and EZOut the one stipped slotted jet, that wasn't too tough once I simply decided to do it. Once off the bike, I took them inside, into my office, onto a desk. There, with a lot of light, several days, and multiple assembly/disassemblies, I believe I have finely rebuilt set, ready to be tested. I've got them mounted, getting ready to fire them up and adjust Idle, sync, etc. From this experience, with future needs, I think I could confidently do a set in just a couple of hours. Each step of this rebuild was researched, examined and redone several times. There were several ambiguous/undocumented pieces of the rebuild process that just simply required experimentation. Example: float valve---the little wire frame that hooks over the float 'tang' -- which way does it go? It can go two ways, 180 degrees of each other. Only one way though, with the little bumps/extrusions in the wireframe facing out, let's the floats move up/down without binding. I couldn't find torque values on any of the bolts/jets seatings, so set most at firm, maybe 7-10lbs.

The electronic 'copied' versions of the shop manuals that I've got just aren't very clear, wished I had an original factory printing MANY times this past week, something with quality pictures. Ended up referring mostly to the "Parts" reference, which has semi-decent blow-apart diagrams.

Even with a nearly surgically clean area, on a rubber matt, I still managed to lose a couple things and either fabricated to reused a 'close' matching piece from my junk pile. I do swear, some of the parts, especially the little tiny flat washer on the idle jet needle, must vaporize with contact of oxygen. I lost two of those, and I know I had them, one was literally in my hand with my eyeballs glued to it as I watched it vaporize and disappear forever.

Bob

On the note and mention of the gas tank making the whooshing sound. It is confirmed, the sound is a whooshing of SUCKING in air, suggesting NOT a pressurized configuration as I'd thought. Is there supposed to be a vent for the tank, something like a one-way check valve that permits new air in? Still wondering about that.

As for the Rusty tank... Not sure yet which direction to go. I've read and seen firsthand the results of impatient and improper use of tank sealant products like Kreme and Por. That said, I fully believe these products to be effective solutions, IF STRICT attention is paid to the method and time. Failure to follow the instructions leads to the oft cited flaking/chipping debris, however when fully cured, I've heard from several others that they still have a quality sealed tank after several years... The Rusteco product sounds ideal, saves removal of tank, is biodegradeable and reuseable. At the moment, however, beyond my timeframe and finance condition.

Has anyone else attempted to concoct a mixture of things to produce the effects of Rusteco? Sounds like, as hobbyists, we need some adventurists to experiment. Clearly, Rusteco isn't going to just tell us how to make their blend, but I'd bet a donut that it's not as exotic as it sounds. Perhaps a particular blending of citrus juices and whatnot--which will take time to discover an effective cleaning/sealing solution.

As I type and think more, I may, just to be able to get back and forth to work tomorrow and the remainder of the week, devise a small capacity (1 gallon) auxilliary tank to feed these freshly built carbs. There's no way, after the time and expense that I've just gone through, that I'm going to foul these gals again with rust from the existing tank---just can't do it.

Whadya think of this? I'm sure it's not ideal, the safest or may be even illegal, but: take a 1-2 gallon gas can/jug in the trunk/saddlebad, punch a small hole at the bottom for a bulkhead type 1/4" fitting. I know it ain't proper, but that 75 mile, bumper to bumper, 1.5 hour commute in the suburban last week costs me $30 or more each day.

Bob
 

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This morning started out as one of the best that I'd had in a long while. The bike was back together again, and running like a top, with sharp response, and smooth idle down to about 600 (for giggles). No more of that wobbly clunk sounds, and the clutch engaging like silk. And quick.. I was having fun making my ride in to work.



Then I hit the freeway..... It started losing power, dropping out, semi-surging. Not sure what's up. Did I louse up the rebuild? I didn't separate the plenum, but did blow lotsa air and hot steam through them over the course of a few days. I spent a ton of time figuring out the floats, using a caliper rule, got them all as close to 15.5mmas I could. Idle screws, new slow jets, 1 new air cutoff.

The spring for the extra diaphragm/pump on carb #3, which fit properly on the diameter, did seam long, maybe even 1.5-2.0 inches. Wondering if I put a bigger one in by mistake. I did take it apart again, thinking that I used an air cutoff spring, but those clearly don't fit this.

So, the other symptoms: white smoke, immediately and pretty much continuously until I can get it up to about 4000 rpm. Very sluggish, feels like 1 or more cylinders are DEAD. I pulled boots on the left side (where the white smoke was), and it didn't impact the idle. Put the boots back, pulled the right side, same thing, no impact. #3 spark plug is wet cleaned, smells like gas. Is that what the white smoke is? gasoline that's not all burned up? Either the plug is being fouled by too much gas, or is weak in spark and not firing well or enough?

Another thing today, this happened once before. Push the starter button, and almost like a dead battery, nothing happened, a minor attempt at turning over, but then nothing. I rocked it, while in gear, and that let about 3/4 of a turn over. Finally, after jerking it back about 6 feet in 2nd gear, it couldturn it over. With throttle fully in, and cranking for 10 seconds it roughly come back to life, but will die easily unless I keep it at 2000+.

Could this, in any way, but something like a valve that's broken/stuck? Broken spring? Dead coil? bad carbs again? That white smoke, very heavy in smell, like a cab full of exhaust fumes. Head gasket? What happens when belts get a little rough? I haven't checked mine yet...
 

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Deja vu???

NO need to poke holes in our bags there is cut out on the top inside edge or take out one of the mounting bolts on the bottom and run a tube through there.
 

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I'm pretty sure that the left bank, #2 and #4 are dead, only running on #1 and #3, maybe only one of them. The exhaust manifolds on 2 & 4 are cold, even after running for 30 minutes on the freeway. There is spark going to the cylinders, but apparently, they're not igniting.

The white smoke, which frequently comes in high volume, alternates, sometimes from the left, other times, the right. More from the left though. Lasts 10 or so minutes, maybe longer.

Gas is consumed at a lovely rate, about 10MPG. Ugh...

The first few minutes though, after having set overnight, it does run nice. Wondering if too much fuel is being dumped into the cylinder and flooding it out?

What does White smoke come from? Is that coolant burning, or gas being improperly burned?

RB, I'm still working in Sdale, getting ready to leave work right now. By chance would you take a listen to this bike and give me your oppinion?

Bob
 

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I checked resistance on each plug boot, resistor, bare wire, whole wire set, and then between plug boot #1 and 3, and between boots 2&4. The resistors, varying, 4500 to 5400, all within reasonable range. Wires, straight through, almost no resistance, boot, with resistors, nearly same as resistors, and complete wire assemblies: nearly same as resistors. So, wiring and boots/resistors are nearly perfect. Coil #1 (cyl1&3) came up 27.3Kohms, and Coil 2 (cyl 2&$) just about 26.9Kohms. I'd read somewhere that if it ain't 27Kish, that they're toast. Does that necessarily mean at 27K that they're OK? I put an inline spark tester--the spark looks weak to me. Also, the clicking that I seem to recall, of the sparks going off, is really only audible at about 2000rpm. The motor is still very sluggish, and the manifolds on the left side are COLD, I mean, real cold, like a refrigerant is going through it. It's still fairly warm here in Arizona, and these things were cold enough to produce condensation in our extremely dry air. Is that the fuel just ripping through it and evaporation?

Still, wondering what that white smoke is. I'm figuring that it MUST be fuel that's burning in the exhaust pipes? Liquid out of the exhaust valve cause it didn't ignite, but then hits the hot pipe. The pipe is getting hot even though the 2/4 bank isn't. Must be heat conductance frome the right side. The only time the left side manifolds get warm is after running a bit, and letting it set for 10 minutes--then the heat from the other side gets the left side warm.

I'm still very concerned about the motor 'freeze'. SOmetimes, still, after parked, I try to start, and the starter motor STARTS, but then abuptly stops, no further movement with button presses. If I put it into third and roll the bike backwards, to forcibly turn the motor over, after a complete Rev or two, then I can move forward again past the original lockup. Really starting to think that a ring is popped or maybe I have a chunk of something flopping around inside?

What happens to a motor as the timing belts start going bad? Do they work right up till when they fail, or do they start getting sloppy? What are the symptoms of bad timing, besides poor performance in general?

Thanks in advance.
 
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