[Graham B]

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Help!

All the bits have arrived to change my starter clutch. The engine is sitting outside of the frame. I've undone all the bolts etc but no end of hitting, beating and threatening the cover will make it budge. :weightlifter:

Any words of wisdom please? :baffled:

 

[JOHNO]

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If your sure everythings undone, then the cover's probably stuck on the lining up pins. if you've got a new gasket, very carefully use a scalpel or stanley blade cut into the gasket near these pins then give the whole joint a good dousing of WD40. leave it to let the oil soak in. The it's back to the beating and swearing. repeat until free.

My 1200 was the same, I don't think the castings line up properly because once it was off and the work done, trying to get the pins/spacers lined up was a nightmare, in the end I ditched one of the pins and everything pulled together with no oil leaks.

Good luck

 

[tommyrich]

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Graham: What were the symptoms when you decided to repair the starter clutch?

 

[exavid]

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Carefully working the blade of a putty knife into the edge of gasket and working the blade up and down a bit to loosen things works well and isn't likely to scratch up the mating edges. A little heat will help too if it's gasket goo holding things together.

 

[Graham B]

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Tommyrich

I'd had odd problems with the starter spinning and not engaging. Then the water pump went big time and I wasted a lot of time and money because I thought it was a head gasket (it doesn'r always leak out of the water pump hole). This resulted in lots of sludge.

Although I managed to start the bike once, the starter now spins as fast as you like but won't engage. The motor is engaged with the chain so it has to be the clutch (or the air will turn bluer than it already is).

Everyone else,

Thanks for the tips. Lots of banging and swearing after tea then.

 

[GWEddie]

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The rear cover can be a pain. Plenty of walloping with a rubber mallet should do the job.

 

[rcmatt007]

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does the starter ever catch? my 1000 had intermittent problems and I changed the starter clutch... still has intermittent problems. It is worse when the bike has sat for a long time, however, it usually will catch after a couple of tries

 

[exavid]

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rcmatt007 wrote:

does the starter ever catch? my 1000 had intermittent problems and I changed the starter clutch... still has intermittent problems. It is worse when the bike has sat for a long time, however, it usually will catch after a couple of tries

Is it more prevalent when the bike's cold or hot? Weather make a difference?

 

[Graham B]

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This latest episode made no difference - cold or hot. It first started when I had replaced the water pump. Started the bike and got it nice and hot. Then as I'd done a lot of work I thought I'd check the carb balance. Stopped the engine and the starter motor has just spun ever since. :baffled:

Tried bump starting, getting it hot and using flushing oil to get the muck out (twice) to no avail. I reckon that if I rode it for long enough the clutch might have freed itself slightly but with a bad back I don't fancy trying to bump her on my own. :weightlifter:

 

[tommyrich]

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Graham B

Thanks for the reply. My 1100 just grunts when I hit the starter button, especially when it has been on the side stand ( hot or cold). If I sit on the bike and move it around (Shake it from side to side) the starter grabs and it starts so easily. A friend who owns a Pacific Coast suggested that one of my carbs might be flooding,and to take the plugs out and see if any one is wet after the initial start.



tommyrich

 

[Graham B]

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tommyrich,
Might be the starter showing signs of wear. Getting quite expert and taking mine out - fairing lower, crash bar, gearchange, starter. But take the starter out with the bike on the sidestand or you might lose the gear wheel forwever.

Everyone else,

Many thanks for your comments. Heat and freeing agent won the day. My guess was right and around the starter clutch/alternator area there's tons of curdled cream! Left the cover upside down for the night so hopefully most of it will drain away. The cover had been off before and I've found a nice new clutch but the cover was stuck on with something sticky over what looks like a very dodgy gasket.

Thanks again.

 

[rcmatt007]

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curdled cream sounds like water getting into the oil, either from worn rings, crankcase vent not venting, or LOTS of not warming it up driving. sounds like you will need afew changes of oil to get it clear. If it had been there long it can make evrything wear out faster. had a '65 chevy like that.. had to add oil everytime I got gas... now my harley... never burns oil

 

[exavid]

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It does sound like oil and water mousse, but it won't come from bad rings. The usual culprit is a leaking head gasket. Pull the plugs and see if you have one that looks a lot cleaner than the others, usually a leak of any size will steam clean the plug a bit. Your oil will turn black, but if it looks brown or has fudgy brown stuff in the engine anywhere you can bet there's a gasket gone. There are other causes but I'd bet on a gasket 100 to 1

 

[Graham B]

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Thanks but been there, done that.

When I first found water getting into the oil everyone said it was head gasket even though a compression test and various experiments with tissue said no. So I took the heads off and changed the gaskets. The old gaskets showed no signs of leaking.

Took the bike out for a test ride amd it became obvious that water was back into the engine quite quickly. When I drained the oil almost half the water had drained into the oil. :whip:

In desperation I ploughed through the books and Clymer provided the answer. At the end of section 8 it says "If there is water in the engine oil, the O-rings around the impeller shaft or engine front cover are probably leaking." :gunhead:

So I pulled the water pump housing. The pump's bearings had failed which in turn had messed up the pumps drive shaft O-rings and the pump was starting to burrow out through the bottom of the cover! :cooldevil:

So I fixed that but of course it took time and I think that's what's stuck the starter clutch.

It's been a real labour of love. Now I've got the chance of a 1989 1500 with 115k on the clock and has been off the road for two years. But I'm wondering if I want to go through all this again. :baffled:

Anyone fancy a '81 1100 Interstate that's had almost everything replaced? :cheeky1:

 

[exavid]

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I'm embarrassed that the water pump didn't occur to me. Should have, I've had the thing in and out. Sorry you had to change the head gaskets for no reason.

 

[Graham B]

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It's not anybody's fault.

I'd fallen into the same trap by simply thinking it was the head gaskets but puzzled by the good, even compression. When I read the note in the Clymer manual I wasn't convinced as nothing was dripping out of the hole and it wasn't blocked.

We live and learn.

 

[exavid]

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That was a good lesson, one I will remember. I was wondering, did you have any oil or water showing up at the waterpump weep hole? My guess would be nothing would show up if it were the shaft seal that let go. Was there any sign of oilin the coolant?

 

[Graham B]

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There was nothing at the water pump weep hole and the coolant that was where coolant was supposed to be was fine.

I forgot to say that as I wasn't 100% convinced, I drained the oil (and water), then refitted the oil drain. The next night I removed the oil drain and water came out! Seemed conclusive to me.

 

[rcmatt007]

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sometimes we all forget the most obvious questions... like is the coolant level dropping.

glad you finally figured it out

 

[BenMC]

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Graham, The water pump O ring has caught plenty of people out, even main dealers. Facts are that you often just can't tell. Even when head gaskets are going they won't always show in a compression test unless the gasket is gone around the cylinder. If the area between a water channel and oil channel is gone then you will have water in the oil and vice versa and that still won't show in a compression test, and the hoses won't even get hard either when the engine is running. So it's a case offlipping a coin to decide whichto do first, head gaskets or the pump O ring.