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Hello everybody,
Ok I rebuild my carb and bought me a new starter and solenoid. I checked the starter before i put it in and it turned just fine. I put it in and nothing! I jumped while it was in and nothing (used a car battery)... when i press the bottom i hear the big click on the solenoid. I grabbed a screw driver and touched the 2 bolts on the solenoid and nothing it just sparks.

So i took of the spark plugs and the valve covers and pushed the bike to get the pistons going and found no gas and i can hear the compression.

So then pushed started it and it started up right away with no hustle. One mechanic i talk too said that i might have to take out the rear case to check the chain and make sure that its all right back there... but i wanna see what else i can check before i make any big moves.

Any ideas out for me :sadguy:
 

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You might have had hydrolocked cylinder(s). When you took out the plugs you solved it and now cranks fine. Always shut off the petcock when leaving the bike for any period of time
 

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The starter bench tests fine but doesn't spin at all in the bike? Maybe there is an issue at the main ground connection at the left triangle motor mount or at the battery. Can't take but a minute to clean them up and see if it makes a difference.
 

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Where is the "New Starter " from ? many are chinese built and cheap imposters of a starter motor . I dont think you have a starter chain problem . Its likely the starter . Check with a volt meter to see if the solenoid is sending 12 volts to the starter .
 

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GregForesi wrote:
The starter bench tests fine but doesn't spin at all in the bike? Maybe there is an issue at the main ground connection at the left triangle motor mount or at the battery. Can't take but a minute to clean them up and see if it makes a difference.
Correct!... I test none mounted and it works fine..

Im going to clean all that up see if it does...
 

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OnaWingandaPrayer wrote:
Where is the "New Starter " from ? many are chinese built and cheap imposters of a starter motor . I dont think you have a starter chain problem . Its likely the starter . Check with a volt meter to see if the solenoid is sending 12 volts to the starter .
I bought it from ebay... most likely yeaa its a china one. I will check the volts tomorrow and see what happens, i will report back when i get the results.
 

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bench testing a starter doesn't tell you much. if it doesn't turn at all you know it is bad but just because it turns with no load doesn't mean it is good. I have seen many car and truck starters that would spin great but barely turn an engine when installed. Have had one GL1100 starter that woudl bench great but not even come close to turning engine and it was new too. Cheap but new. Bad windings or gears that bind under load are among the problems I have seen. definetly check all you connections and grounds first though.
 

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TBear hit the test situation right on, IT TAKES A LOAD EQUAL TO THE ENGINE, to verify the motor is good. That is because the motor on most starters is a DC series wound where the field and armature are wired in series. That means whatever current goes through the field goes through the armature.

When the motor fails either the field or armature or both can open, short or be 1/2 way and with the failing motor zero torque can be produced. Worn brushes will duplicate failure.

When good this style of motor can develop lots of torque at about 1/2 ---1 HP, if 1 hp uses 746 watts, these motors can develop 6x that wattage. That is why you let them sit to cool before re-trying.

But we become impatient and over use will burn them in silence.

As an example, an 1100 can draw 100-150 A to start, but that motor is 62 A at 100%. Series wound motors can and do run at an over-loaded condition by design.

Want to save that starter motor? Engage it no longer than 3 seconds at a time and let rest at least 1 minute between tries and engage it no more than 3x at any attempt to start a motor. Then let it cool and rest while you charge the battery.

If the motor you have is a Chinese knock off, that motor is likely a poorly built copy of a good design.

Possible things that are wrong with a copy
Lousy quality of labour to building
poor bearing
Poor hardness of materials
Lousy insulation
cheap carbon brushes
Armature built to zero tolerances to an over load
Commutator weak, bad insulation, soft copper

Over all the motor looks good but in reality it will work not so good.

The prime objective of any copy is to get your money.

It costs manufacturers to harden steel, use proper copper, build correct bearing, use copper motor wire that is the correct shape for that motor, the correct tensile strength, the correct varnish application to insulate the wire and on top of this the training and skills of the people putting it all together. Drop any of the above and the end piece may be junk.

If you have an OEM starter motor and the ability to rework that motor by a good rewind shop, you would be further ahead. But if that shop has poor tradesman tour into a gamble.

When seeking out a shop, ask if they will warrant their work and materials and if yes will they offer assistance to you for a second removal?

Ask where they get their stock like motor wire, insulating papers and varnishes, do they use Chinese products?

How do they test the end product or do they leave that to the customer, Do they use a Pony Brake or a diagnostic computerized tester? Ask for a tour.

A good motor repair shop needs a few things and you should see

A burn out oven enclosed and vented
Work benches
Drill press
Rewind machines
Hand formed wire coil forms
Lathe
Bores
Presses, hydraulic or mechanical
Math charts on the wall
Wire size books
Motor maker books around

The work area should be clean and tidy and the people presentable. Motor shops were dirty places but in 2011 they must be clean.

If you feel comfortable by what you experience while at the motor repair shop you might feel confident in their work ethic.

But the results will be in getting that old motor back in working condition.

That now rebuilt motor comes back to you with a wrapping and paper work along with the bill. The paperwork describes the many tests that the motor went through with all the results. No paper trail, then the shop probably did a poor job. The paper is as important as the motor for follow up.

Try to find a good motor shop and use them, if they play by the rules they are a very very good place to rebuild motors to better than new with the paper and proof of their quality and efforts.

They sure beat the hell of knock offs that can't produce because of poor quality all around
 

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If the starter is Chinese, it is most likely junk. There are 2 things I would do. First of all, a GL1100 does not have a "solenoid", it has a relay, which is a remote electrically operated switch capable of handling the current a starter motor draws. It does not actually engage the starter drive mechanism like a solenoid does. But anyway, first check and see if you are actually getting voltage TO THE STARTER when you push the button, and the relay clicks. If you get 12V between the terminal on the starter and ground, then everything is ok up to that point. It is either a bad starter or the started is binding somehow, possibly in the starter drive system. (I am assuming the other starter did not work either is why you bought a new one?). You can check this with a clamp on ammeter. I'm not sure what kind of amperage the starter motor draws when it is working properly, But if it is stuck, it will draw a whole lot more, just before burning up. The wire to the starter and the starter case will get very hot.

If the starter does not turn at all, and is not seriously overheating, then it is either dead or very weak. Even if it is the motor itself and it's binding, if it is getting power, it will draw an absolutely ridiculous amount of amps and very quickly overheat. A/C compressors actually have a number for this condition, called locked rotor amps. They also have an IP (internal protection) switch that will quickly break the circuit if the compressor is locked, shutting off power to it.

If the starter is getting voltage, yet does not turn nor overheat, an amp draw check should show zero, or a very small number, meaning the starter is electrically dead.


As was said above, Starter motors run at well over their capacity. They need to put out a lot of power for their size. They get away with this because the run only a few seconds at a time, at very high speed. They are geared VERY low, and spin way faster than they turn over the engine. Even so, they should not be used for more than a few seconds at the time, and allowed to cool off between uses. Burning out a starter on an older small block Chevy is no big deal, a new one is $35. But the Goldwing, and most other motorcycles, are a whole nother matter.
 

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JerryH you are right it is a relay, but it is still a solenoid.

In engineering, the term solenoid may also refer to a variety of transducer devices that convert energy into linear motion. The term is also often used to refer to a solenoid valve, which is an integrated device containing an electromechanical solenoid which actuates either a pneumatic or hydraulic valve, or a solenoid switch, which is a specific type of relay that internally uses an electromechanical solenoid to operate an electrical switch; for example, an automobile starter solenoid, or a linear solenoid, which is an electromechanical solenoid.
 

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In electrical devices things that electrically make contact or break contact or cause a state of change from closed to open are switches, relays, contactors, starters and many other things that are physical contacts or solid state devices.

In electrical control relays are devices that carry up to 10 A and are pilot control, ie smaller things that are enabled to handle smaller loads up to 10 A.

They can be used to handle higher loads but the higher loads do not go through the relay.

With higher loads, contactors are used, they can be big contactors and big amp loads. Common place with heating and lighting loads.

A contactor in combination with overloads is called a starter. Starters are used to turn motors on and off.

Cars trucks and bikes for example use similar technology and often the devices they use get named slightly different and a common name becomes more prevalent as people adopt the common name.

Starter motors on vehicles are not fused, the relay or starter relay handles way more than 10 A and there is no overload attached to the output of the solenoid.

Here I am using relay and solenoid as an interchangeable name. As already mentioned they are different devices. At 110 V to 600V there must be conformity to rules because life and materials can be in danger. But at 12 volts it seems not too important.

We as Goldwing users can and do call the intermediate device to start the starter a relay, a solenoid or a thinga ma jig. We understand what each of us is talking about...the electric thing that starts and stops the starter motor. By pushing a small button, than energizes a relay (contactor) that starts the motor turning to get the engine going. And when the button is let go the motor stops. Until something goes wrong and we have to discuss it.

So as long as we understand getting into the nitty gritty of technical words are not really important unless ........an understanding is needed of the complex mechanism at which time the explanation becomes technical.

Why is the sky......blue?
 

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I push started the bike yesterday, and started just fine. Out of curiosity i pressed the start bottom and the starter turned!. It turned just fine with the first touch.
What does this mean?
Is this is a for sure electrical problem?
I can now confirm that this is not a chain problem?

I also noticed that my fuse box is all rusted up, i was thinking that i should swap it and put a newer one in there. I changed my fuses and noticed that my volt meter is at 12 now and before it was at 11. When the bike is on my meter is almost at 13volt


I have a mechanic coming over with a volt meter to check the wires cuzz i don't know anything about that.
 

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Push starting a bike is the same as using the starter, the end result is the motor goes. ICE, internal combustion engines have a history of hand cranking, putting energy into rotating that engine. Along came over loading DC motors to start the engine.

You still need power for the ignition and ancillary light etc.

But push starting does away with all the control to start the motor with a battery , starter, and controls. So these things could be good or bad when push starting the motor none of it is needed or used. Unless you have decided this is the normal way to start your bike, you are done, all the PB, relays, cables and wires along with the starter motor are now redundant Even the battery can be replaced with a small gen set, magneto affair to provide power for the plugs.

This push starting is really an interim form of starting while you figure out what is wrong The issue is to find the problem!

The bike starts with a push and that is good, so with that the bike is in good enough tune to start and run, idle.

The starter out of the bike proved to turn, that is good at least it works but without a load.

The push button worked, this time...it needs to be checked for resistance and as close to zero ohms as possible, and tested many times to see if conduction happens with every push.

Then the starter solenoid, relay, contactor (your choice) must be verified to engage every time the PB is pressed, then the contacts within the relay have to be tested and an output battery voltage tested each and every time the relay is on the output 12 V is there and then each time the 12V is there the stater motor works.

There is a logical order and an outcome to each so that the control works the output, then input to the next output and so on. If the sequence breaks down anywhere along the series operation then everything breaks down.

Each and every single component must work in order to get the next component to work.

The battery voltage must be high enough and long lasting enough to power up the relay, the starter motor. The PB and the wires and cables are not considered consumers of power, but they are very important in delivering power and controlling the on/off operation.

The DC motor is the main consumer, the work horse is complex in its use of battery power and many things within the motor must be good from the bolt and nut at the + first connection, to the carbon brushes, brush holder, to the commutator, to the field then to the armature to the return line which is the steel body of the motor bolted into the - frame ground. All parts of the motor ground and + feed must be in good shape and clean.

A DC motor surrounded in carbon is not able to produce HP and torque because the carbon is a semi-conductor and as such when power is supplied to carbon the carbon conducts and the power or all of it does not go into the armature and field.

The motor is an unknown at this time, it must be verified as a motor and as a good motor.

Take your time, pull the motor out, if doubtful send it back and rebuild the OEM motor At the same time verify the cables, wires, push buttons and have every thing ready for that rebuilt starter motor. Then when everything is ready and with a charged battery the bike should start as if new.
 

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Great info.. you all have giving me. I will need to check that starter motor for sure. Thank you all, i will post updates ASAP..
 
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