[Renegade]

imported post

Hi guys... I've got a GL1200 ring job coming inFebuary.. Haven't done one in at least 10 years on one of these machines.. Anyone know where to getpiston ringsCHEAP?

The Bike Bandit has them for around $57.00 US a set... Seems a little high to me..

Any suggestions?

Thanks .....Renegade

 

[Goldwinger1984]

imported post

Grab them while you can Renegade. 10 years ago that would have been expensive, not today. .

I just rebuilt a 1340 ccHarley- Davidsonand the rings cost $112. and that's just for 2 cylinders. You could check with Hastings because that's where I found the best prices for the HD rings

Please keep us updated on your rebuild as you go along. Take some picsif you can.

Vic

 

[Renegade]

imported post

Thanks GW... The owner is bringing the bike in the day after the Super Bowl and I wanted to have the parts ready... The engine is smoking all the time from the right bank and compression was in the high 50"s from both cylinders.. Bike only has 44,ooo miles on it and I suspect the oil & compression rings are gone.. Left side is perfect so I'm not going to mess with them...

 

[exavid]

imported post

In the longer run wouldn't it be better to replace all four sets? As long as you've got the case open it wouldn't take all that much longer to hone and replace the good ones too. Sure be a pain if after replacing two sets the other start smoking later on. Also it might keep the engine smoother if all cylinders are pulling the same. The engine will have to have a break in anyway. New rings all round and new valve seals would sure keep the old mill running for a long time and wouldn't be that much more work or cost.

:baffled:

 

[Renegade]

imported post

You must be reading my mind Exavid.. Ringing the left side all depends on how I get the rings... Don't know if they come as a single piston set or 4 piston set.. AND,,, the size of his wallet.. I'm not :santahat:

 

[Eamonn1200]

imported post

The rings come in single sets as far as I remember when I was pricing bits for my head rebuild. It would make sense to do all 4 pots at the same time.

 

[Silicon Sam]

imported post

My question is, how can the rings be toast after 44,000 miles? See like so few miles when may wings have 200K on them with good rings.

 

[Goldwinger1984]

imported post

Silicon Sam, the rings can become toast very quickly if the carbs are flooding. What happens is that the raw fuel washes the lubricating oil off the cylinder walls.

Renegade, just wondering if you've done a proper wet and dry compression test on this bike? It would sure make your job easier if it was just valve guides and valve seals causing the problem.

Vic

 

[Renegade]

imported post

GW.. I pulled the plugs to do the compression test and they were black and wet with oil. However, I'll do the wet and dry test when it shows up in a few days... Thanks..

 

[Dave Campbell]

imported post

Goldwinger1984 wrote:

Silicon Sam, the rings can become toast very quickly if the carbs are flooding. What happens is that the raw fuel washes the lubricating oil off the cylinder walls.

Here Here! Thats fact. I saw one just at the point of implosion (50 - some thousand miles) and getting so hot the coolant was leaking. It fried the cylinders just over 60K mi.

Both fuel and lectrical prolems will do this. My first '86A ran the exhaust headers at 500*F + due to bad electrics, once the charging and ignition were fixed, the pipes ran 240*F.


BTW Renegade, Id urge you to not repair the engine till the source is found and cured, might set you up for law suit when it fries again.

 

[exavid]

imported post

Premature failure of rings usually comes from overheating. Lack of oil will get the bearings first. Is there any way coolant can circulate through the left side but not the right? Rather unusual to have such a difference in the two sides. Wonder if the right timing belt has ever failed? Wonder about valve timing?

Lots of oil on the plugs could be something as simple as a valve problem (hope, hope). I don't know that the squirting oil into the cylinder to differentiate between ring and valve problems will work all that well on a horizontal cylinder. It's not likely the oil will seal the rings on the upper part of the piston. I don't think you'd want to lay your bike on it's side to get the cylinder vertical for that check.

If you have a compressor on hand, you can test it by applying air pressure to the cylinder (at TDC with the crankshaft locked) and listening to see if the air leaks out mostly through the crankcase vent or the head. Get a cheap compression gauge, the type with a short hose between the gauge and screw in plug adapter. You can remove the gauge and install a air hose fitting.

It's worth spending some effort at diagnosis before pulling the engine and splitting the case. If it's a head problem that'd be a lot of excess work. I'd pull the head before buying rings and take a good look at things. That doesn't require engine removal and if it's something wrong with the valves orcam assembly it will save a lot of work and time.

 

[Goldwinger1984]

imported post

exavid, if you can picture how hydraulics work, you'll be able to see how the oil wil be evenly distributed around the cylinder/piston by the cylinders compression. The compression will take that small lump of oil and turn it into an evenly shaped pancake that will cover the entire cylinder because physics forces it to do so. I've done many wet and dry tests on Wings and realized a big difference between wet and dry readings.

Vic

 

[exavid]

imported post

I'm surprised you're seeing that much difference.On a vertical cylinder the oil naturally spreads out over the piston top, is it the acceleration of the piston when you crank it that spreads the oil on the horizontal cylinder? I've never tried it with a flat four. My experience with boxter layouts has been with VW, Continental and Lycoming. On those it's easy enough to pull a jug and take a look. Live and learn, I seem to have done more of the former!

:waving:

 

[Renegade]

imported post

Keep the suggestiions coming.. I agree with you all that pulling the block and splitting it is the last thing I want to do... Thanks.. :waving:

 

[Dave Campbell]

imported post

Since it has to come off anyway, yank the air filter unit and look inside the air box, might see oil in there.

PS If youre concerned about ring oiling for a test, why wouldnt it work to screw in the compression gauge (warm engine) then start it briefly? The rings would be oiled at that point.

 

[Goldwinger1984]

imported post

exavid, the piston helps to distribute the oil, but, the compression pressure is what causes the oil to spread out evenly. If you have an old syringe around, place a drop of thin oil or liquid soap inthe tube, then block the needle end and depress the plunger. If you apply enough pressure the oil or soap will conform to the physics law of hydraulicsthat states that pressure applied will be equal in all directions. Since the oil is liquid it willconform to the shape of the cylinder. If it weren't for this physics law we would not be able run our Wing engines reliably because gravity would take over and keep all the fuel and oil at the bottom of the cylinder, starving the upper portion.

Renegade, don't forget to warm the engine and keep the throttle wide open and have all plugs outwhen you do the compression test. Turn the kill switch off also so you don't get zapped by a stray spark. Make sure you use a fully charged battery to get accurate readings.

 

[Dave Campbell]

imported post

Goldwinger1984 wrote:

If it weren't for this physics law we would not be able run our Wing engines reliably because gravity would take over and keep all the fuel and oil at the bottom of the cylinder, starving the upper portion.

Still laughing about that one... HEAT does it, not pressure. Its Thermodynamics, not pressure. If its pressure, why does the fuel condense (and burn poorly) when the engine is cold, and compression is highest?:gunhead::gunhead::gunhead::gunhead::gunhead::gunhead::action:

Back to the physics books for you mate.

 

[FitzAl]

imported post

I thought thermodynamics applied more to diesel engines. Thats why diesels have glow plugs, to heat the air in the cylinder (as opposed to heating the diesel) so that the diesel can atomize properly.

 

[Goldwinger1984]

imported post

Dave Campbell, you're knocking my theory based on a complete and total misunderstanding ofwhat I have written . Thermodynamics only comes into play when heat is involved. My discussion is about liquids and hydraulics without heat being involved.



Vic

 

[Grouchomax]

imported post

Now lads, no hitting at one another. It's not nice to see gurus arguing.

My input into this topic is that I had a Kawasaki Z1300 years ago and it was burning oil all the time. Compression was good (175 all round as I recall) and I put it down to valve seals or worn valves, so I got new valves and seals fitted. The engine still smoked just as badly as before so I ended up getting the lump stripped. It turned out that the oil rings were all stuck (gummed) into the grooves in the pstons, probably caused by the bike left laid up for a couple of years. Cleaning the pistons up fixed the problem.
The high compression had me fooled into looking at valve seals and I'm still stumped as to why the oil getting past the oil rings still managed to get past the top two rings in a tight engine.