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Discussion Starter #1
I have a Ford Napa STH404 starter solenoid to replace the cheap ones that keep causing me problems. My question is the connections. Please correct me if these are wrong:

Yellow/red wire to "S" terminal. (switch)
Green/red wire to solenoid base (ground)
Nothing on "I" terminal

Battery on bottom post
Starter on top post

Have directions, just not for green/red wire.
 

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Unless you isolate the solenoid from the frame the green/red wire is useless. You should have gotten the marine relay.
 

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If you bolt the relay to the frame somewhere you don't need the green/red wire, otherwise it goes to the relay base (like you said). Battery and starter on whichever of the two big posts most convenient. Doesn't matter. It's just a switch contact between the two.

In the native application the "I" terminal is a third contact in the main switch contacts between battery and starter. It is is intended to feed full battery voltage to the ignition coil while cranking, bypassing the ballast resistor when you energize the relay but isolating the coil back to the ballast resistor otherwise. You could connect an idiot light to that showing when the relay is energized....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
That's a good idea about usage of the "I" connection, that is if one were to worry about not hearing the starter staying engaged. It's not a very loud sound, so I will strongly consider that option.

On the solenoid, I did isolate the base, and attached the clutch diode wire (green/red - ground) to the base. I also cut off the two mounting wings to make installation easier. The instructions do indicate "M" and "B" connections (stater and battery), so I connected them accordingly.

Did have to drill out the holes on the ring terminals that went to the battery and the starter to make them a tad bigger to fit on the larger posts on the new solenoid. I changed the other ring terminals that go to my key switch and accessories to larger ones, (I have the dogbone eliminated). The starter button wire and the ground clutch diode wire I had to cut loose from the connector and add ring terminals, of course.

Waiting on my replacement starter. But I can tell the solenoid is different. It's instantaneous in it's action and release. I've read a lot of good stuff about this solenoid. And also about the marine one, but not as much. Cars and trucks are in use more than boats may be the reason. In either case, both are much better by far than the cheap a.. solenoid I had on there. Just a note, never buy a cheap solenoid. Too many amps going through there.
 

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That's a good idea about usage of the "I" connection, that is if one were to worry about not hearing the starter staying engaged. It's not a very loud sound, so I will strongly consider that option.

On the solenoid, I did isolate the base, and attached the clutch diode wire (green/red - ground) to the base. I also cut off the two mounting wings to make installation easier. The instructions do indicate "M" and "B" connections (stater and battery), so I connected them accordingly.

Did have to drill out the holes on the ring terminals that went to the battery and the starter to make them a tad bigger to fit on the larger posts on the new solenoid. I changed the other ring terminals that go to my key switch and accessories to larger ones, (I have the dogbone eliminated). The starter button wire and the ground clutch diode wire I had to cut loose from the connector and add ring terminals, of course.

Waiting on my replacement starter. But I can tell the solenoid is different. It's instantaneous in it's action and release. I've read a lot of good stuff about this solenoid. And also about the marine one, but not as much. Cars and trucks are in use more than boats may be the reason. In either case, both are much better by far than the cheap a.. solenoid I had on there. Just a note, never buy a cheap solenoid. Too many amps going through there.
Perfect! If there is any issue it might be the start switch might not stand up to the increased draw of the bigger solenoid. Might never be an issue. Good job, but an insulated base solenoid would have been easier.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Where is the ground for the green/red wire for the clutch diode safety stuff? The marine one was isolated, but it only had four connections. Would I have attached the ground to the "I" post?
Just wondering, I've already installed the Ford one.

About the switch being vulnerable because the solenoid may draw too much to axtivate, maybe Rednaxs can chime in for me. Good point though, as I hadn't thought of that, just the starter amp draw. That's why I went with a heavy duty silenoid. We must always consider all components, as the oem done. Sure wish I could have had this bike brand new, wow! I'm tempted to buy one I've seen in mint condition.
 

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Where is the ground for the green/red wire for the clutch diode safety stuff? The marine one was isolated, but it only had four connections. Would I have attached the ground to the "I" post?
Just wondering, I've already installed the Ford one.
Insulated base solenoids look like the solenoid with the "I" terminal except that there would not be an "I" printed on any terminal. the 2 small terminals are for the solenoid coil. One is the hot end while the other is the ground end of the coil. When you bolt it to metal it is insulated. (not grounded even though it is bolted to a ground) The insulated base solenoid would have been wired with the yellow/red on one terminal and the green/red on the other. Current would flow in the yellow/red wire, (hot) through the coil and out the green/red while the start button is pushed. If you are in neutral or have the clutch in the green/red wire would be grounded and complete the circuit for the solenoid coil to engage.
 

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The two smaller terminals are for the internal coil. You should connect the yellow/red and green/red to these terminals. If you don't connect the green/red to one of these, you will have to use the clutch lever every time you want to start the bike - the ground through the neutral switch will not work. Should be no issue for the bike original wiring as the relay uses a low current supply to activate the starter solenoid internal coil.

On the battery post, you will have to connect the battery wire, the red ignition wire and the red wire going to the main relay, and the red/white charging wire from the regulator.

With this starter solenoid, you will no longer have the 30 amp fuse protection for the electrical system, or from the charging circuit to the battery. You should consider installing an in-line 30 amp fuse on the red wire to the ignition switch, and one on the red/white wire from the regulator.

The other post is for the starter.

My thoughts.

Cheers
 

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The two smaller terminals are for the internal coil. You should connect the yellow/red and green/red to these terminals. If you don't connect the green/red to one of these, you will have to use the clutch lever every time you want to start the bike - the ground through the neutral switch will not work.
The green/red is the same wire for both the clutch switch and the neutral switch, if not connected to one of the small terminals on the isolated base solenoid (or in the case of the ford solenoid if isolated) neither will work.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That marine solenoid does have an "I" printed on it, which to my understanding is just used to send a full 12 volts to the coil during starter cranking. I do not want to connect a ground to that circuit. I've extensively googled that "I" terminal and have never read that it is connected to a safety ground. It is always identified as going to the ignition coil, and carrying a full 12v. Hence the "I" label. Maybe other solenoids have different connections, but then they must also be labeled different.

I do have in line spade fuses on both wires, red to ignition and red/white to regulator. The dogbone elimination, and spade fuse addition, referred to as "Tricky's mod", I done a long time ago.

The solenoid I have installed is grounded through the base, which I isolated and connected the safety ground wire to. No big deal to isolate. I'm not using the "I" terminal. No confusion.

Thanks for helping, but I think I need to be careful before I connect the wires incorrectly. And make darn sure too.
 

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I have a Ford Napa STH404 starter solenoid to replace the cheap ones that keep causing me problems. My question is the connections.

You say the cheap ones that keep causing problems, yet it seems the NAPA product is giving you problems even plugging it in. How is that any different?

Why don't you buy the correct part and be done with this?
.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Napa one is installed, no problem, just checking with everybody on the wiring. A little research revealed connections. The oem one http://www.saber-cycle.com/store/product298.html is $74. I hate to be taken advantage of. Evidently it wasn't very good or else it would have still been there. When I bought it, there was the cheap one already installed. Probably the original culprit was bad connections. Maybe the oem one is ok, I dunno. Anyway, it's done.
Thanks everybody
 

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Napa one is installed, no problem, just checking with everybody on the wiring. A little research revealed connections. The oem one http://www.saber-cycle.com/store/product298.html is $74. I hate to be taken advantage of. Evidently it wasn't very good or else it would have still been there. When I bought it, there was the cheap one already installed. Probably the original culprit was bad connections. Maybe the oem one is ok, I dunno. Anyway, it's done.
Thanks everybody
Jim,
First of all NEVER buy from Sabre. She is a crook and lots of people here have had trouble including myself. If you look at the ad tied to the link, then read the reviews. That is not an OEM solenoid. The wires were reversed. Probably a $10 solenoid they sell for $74. It is not unusual for Sabre. BEWARE..or learn the hard way like me. :)
 

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The green/red is the same wire for both the clutch switch and the neutral switch, if not connected to one of the small terminals on the isolated base solenoid (or in the case of the ford solenoid if isolated) neither will work.
Thanks, just looked at schematic again. Attached picture.

Cheers
 

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That marine solenoid does have an "I" printed on it, which to my understanding is just used to send a full 12 volts to the coil during starter cranking. I do not want to connect a ground to that circuit. I've extensively googled that "I" terminal and have never read that it is connected to a safety ground. It is always identified as going to the ignition coil, and carrying a full 12v. Hence the "I" label. Maybe other solenoids have different connections, but then they must also be labeled different.
.
I did some research and found the marine relay has an isolated base, therefore uses both terminals in the starting circuit, that's why I suggested it. Outboards have a neutral safety and my assumption is it grounds the relay just like on motorcycles.
 

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I have had good luck with the Cole Hersee solenoids. Any of the tp five are the same except for the mount. They can handle 200 amps intermittent with 500 amp inrush. Plenty enough. They also have a 16 ohm coil so that is less than 1 amp on the switches which I like. Take notice if you buy a marine solenoid as some/most are rated at less than 100 amps.Below is a schematic that shows the insulated (isolated) base. I know the old Dodge, Plymouth and Chryslers used the insulated base. I think about 1960 or so should work.
 

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As Dave said there are marine starter relays with isolated mounts.
There are also lots of lawn and garden tractor starter relays with isolated mounts.

Why the Ford relay with grounded mount became the go to replacement is strange.
 
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