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Chippy01 wrote:
To anyone reading; are there any balance shafts within the 1200 engine?

With the sort of milage quoted at the start, any bearings in or around that kind of area may be suspect.

With the vibration "driving itself out", as with a steering wheel wobble on a car, I would summise something like shaft/bearing.

Just a thought. Nasty, I know; but possible.

Phil.
Nope, no balance shafts!
 

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Hi there all and welcome larsernz, sorry to hear you have the same problem as I. Been a little busy the last couple of weeks so haven't done as much I would have liked, however I have checked the compression which is both even and good on all four pots, Plugs look good as well, nice colour no wear or fouling although I haven't checked the coils yet or broughta new one to try. Engine mounts also nice and snug, Guess I will move on to the Timing belts and tensioners next and see how I go. On he good side it has let me ride my 1500 a lot more and that's always fun:)

Keep you posted

regards Bob
 

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Hello exavid.
Now I've checked the T-belts, it was about time cause they where very slack. I replaced them, but it didn't cure the problem (but it took away a bit noise at idle). Also I drained out the oil and checked the oilfilter for metal-spoon, nothing to see. For a short time I thought that I had found the problem, the bracket on the muffler for the centerstand was bent away so the centerstand rested directly on the muffler..... But not, still the same.
I also think that I must take back what I said about the problem occuring when the bike's in neutral on the centerstand. It does vibrate then too, but the slack in my footplates made it sound a lot worse than it is. So, the bad vibration only occures under load between 2000-2500rpm. There's no lack of power during vibration, so it can't be misfiring. Well , my search continues..... Any tips very welcome!
A bit frustrated Larsernz....
 

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It could simply be an imbalance caused varying compression pressure between cylinders, which may be caused by improperly synchronized carburettors or worn rings and/or valves. Or could be ignition timing issues such as missing vacuum advance or improperly set initial timing.

Tune it all up precisely after making sure all the bolts are properly torqued and just drive it and enjoy it unless the vibration is extremely severe. In that case, have an expert listen to it and give an opinion.

Vic
 

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There are NO balance shafts on the GL1200 engines.. Hope this helps...
 

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Larsernz, I was wondering is there's a hill anywhere around you that would be steep enough for you to maintain rpms in the vibration range with the kill switch on. It might be revealing if you still had the vibration when the engine was being driven by the wheel in stead of vise versa. If the vibration was still present with the engine shut off, that would mean the ignition andEFI were not the cause. It would pretty well point to something in the drive line, possibly the U-joint, drive line splines, pinion or rear wheel bearing. I can't remember, did you say the compression was about the same in all four cylinders?

I let my SEI supplemental electrical manual go when I sold my last bike, I sure wish I still had it. It covered testing of all the sensors that go to the ECU and EFI. A bad sensor could do this, by giving bad information to the ECU or EFI. There are sensors that watch engine speed, temperature, and a bunch more variables. If you could find a copy of that book, possibly on eBay, it would be a great help in maintaining your bike.
 

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exavid wrote:
Larsernz, I was wondering is there's a hill anywhere around you that would be steep enough for you to maintain rpms in the vibration range with the kill switch on. It might be revealing if you still had the vibration when the engine was being driven by the wheel in stead of vise versa. If the vibration was still present with the engine shut off, that would mean the ignition and EFI were not the cause. It would pretty well point to something in the drive line, possibly the U-joint, drive line splines, pinion or rear wheel bearing. I can't remember, did you say the compression was about the same in all four cylinders?

I let my SEI supplemental electrical manual go when I sold my last bike, I sure wish I still had it. It covered testing of all the sensors that go to the ECU and EFI. A bad sensor could do this, by giving bad information to the ECU or EFI. There are sensors that watch engine speed, temperature, and a bunch more variables. If you could find a copy of that book, possibly on eBay, it would be a great help in maintaining your bike.
Hello again exavid.
I have that service manual supplement and also the Clymer repair-book, but my problem ain't electrical.
During the last days I've been testing a lot , the vibration has become worse and there's more noise. Now I also get the vibration when I deaccelerate, specially in the 4th gear and just around 2100rpm. Today I borrowed an electronic multichannel "listening-device" (don't know the english word..) with 6 clamps that I attached around the bike. Then I culd listen out where the noise came from, just switching between clamps while driving. The noise is strongest around the left-hand lower engine-mount and that area of the engine. Bad news I suppose..... :(.I guess it's either the scavenger oil pump, the alternator driveshaft, starterclutch or maybe the clutch. Anyway, now I'm sure I have to take out and open the engine. Meanwhile my 79'Yamaha XS650 have to do..
:?.
I need a drink now....Cheers (or SKÅL as we say in Norway).
Best regards, Larsernz:cool:
 

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Uff da Larsenz, sounds like you will have to take it apart. The good news is when you have it back together it will be like new since you'll be able to take care of all the little details!

:waving::15red::waving:
 

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Hi Exavid,

Thought this was such a good idea I went and tried it five minute ago (just for info Larsernz my vibration is worse also on decelleration especially going down hills) cut the engine and the vibration almost disappears, gave a rotten backfire however once it started up again, must have shoved a load of unburnt fuel through to the exhausts, I am definately thinking it isn't the drive line now, time for me to take the motor out as well :-( think I might check the bearings on the water pump first, just in the hope of an easier task). Regards Bob
 

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otagobob wrote:
Hi Exavid,

Thought this was such a good idea I went and tried it five minute ago (just for info Larsernz my vibration is worse also on decelleration especially going down hills) cut the engine and the vibration almost disappears, gave a rotten backfire however once it started up again, must have shoved a load of unburnt fuel through to the exhausts, I am definately thinking it isn't the drive line now, time for me to take the motor out as well :-( think I might check the bearings on the water pump first, just in the hope of an easier task). Regards Bob
Yeah it would backfire, sorry I should have warned you. Used to do that for the hell of it when I was young and dumb. If the system seems smooth when coasting with the engine off but vibrates with the engine running on decelleration it still looks like ignition or carbs to me. I'm stillsuspicious of the ignition system. You haven't described anything that sounds like it needs to have the case split or the engine pulled.
 

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This thread is very interesting and it applies directly to an 85 Aspencade the I am currently working on for a friend.

Strangest thing I ever felt on a Wing.

From 1800 to 2100 RPM in any gear, I get a definate vibration which almost feels like the engine that is lugging. It only vibrateswhen given lots of throttle between 1800 and 2100 and does not vibrate if I turn the throttle to a slightly loaded cruise position, but, the vibration starts up again on coast, although not as severe as under load.

Before 1800 RPM and after 2100 RPM it's perfectly smooth and pulls hard. The engine starts and runs fine. Will rev freely to to redline without missing and cruises just fine.

Does anyone have any other suggestions as to what to look for without pulling the engine to look around?

I'm to the point where I believe that it is the alternator driveshaft causing the problem because when I place my ear very close to the lower left rear side of the engine I hear the noise most prominently.


Vic
 

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:
This thread is very interesting and it applies directly to an 85 Aspencade the I am currently working on for a friend.

Strangest thing I ever felt on a Wing.

From 1800 to 2100 RPM in any gear, I get a definate vibration which almost feels like the engine that is lugging. It only vibrates when given lots of throttle between 1800 and 2100 and does not vibrate if I turn the throttle to a slightly loaded cruise position, but, the vibration starts up again on coast, although not as severe as under load.

Before 1800 RPM and after 2100 RPM it's perfectly smooth and pulls hard. The engine starts and runs fine. Will rev freely to to redline without missing and cruises just fine.

Does anyone have any other suggestions as to what to look for without pulling the engine to look around?

I'm to the point where I believe that it is the alternator driveshaft causing the problem because when I place my ear very close to the lower left rear side of the engine I hear the noise most prominently.


Vic
Hello vic!
What you describes about that 85'aspy is very simular to how my bike behaves. As I've described earlier in this tread my bike also is perfectly smooth in the rest of the rpm-scale. I also hear the noise most prominently at the lower left rear side of the engine. Since you suspect the alternator-shaft, is that a well known problem? Or do you know if the starterclutch (or it's bearing) could be the sinner? As you said, it's a very strange vibration, caused me a few more gray hairs.....
:shock: Good luck! Larsernz
 

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Hi Larsernz, if it was my own bike I'd have the engine out and torn down on the bench for a complete inspection, but, since it belongs to someone else I don't have that luxury.

Apparently the owner of this bike has been driving it with this vibration ever since he bought the bike 3 years ago, so, it doesn't seem as though it's something that falls off immediately, especially since this fellow has put many thousands of miles on his Wing with no problems arising from this vibration.

It's only a guess on my part that it could be the alternator driveshaft bearings and the reason I guess it's that is because the rotor is mounted on the end of it and this could cause a severe vibration because of it's weight if the bearings allow it to go eccentric on its axis. I wanted to try disconnecting the stator and see if the vibration went away, but, this stator is hard wired. If your stator still has the white plug on it, disconnect the stator (3 yellow wires) and take the bike for a ride and see if the vibration subsides at all. It if does go away, then that may verify that it is the alternator driveshaft causing the problem, if not then your guess is as good as mine without looking at the inside of the engine. My next guess would possibly be clutch I think.

Please let me know if and when you get to tryyour bike with the alternator disconnected. Just make sure the stator wires do not touch ground when they are disconnected.

I sure would have liked to diagnose this problem accurately while I had the bike here, but, now I'll have to wait till it finally breaks or gets really bad to find out for sure what the real problem is. I spent 2 hours driving this bike at high speeds today and it ran fine except for that stupid, unrecognizable vibration between 1800 and 2100 RPM. If I downshifted as soon as I felt that vibration you would never know the vibration was even there. It's very strange because I can run my 84 Aspencade down to 1500 RPM in 5th gear and roll the throttle on gently and pull away without ever feeling that same vibration. It's one of those things that will probably keep me up at night until I figure out what the heck the cause of the vibration really is.

If you find anything more let me know and I'll let you know likewise.

Vic
 

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I haven't had any vibrations to talk about but my 1500 does have an odd buzz, kinda like tin buzzing when accellerating at low speed, especially if I lug the engine just a little. I'm kind of suspecting the shielding around the exhaust headers but haven't gotten around to it yet.
 

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:
Hi Larsernz, if it was my own bike I'd have the engine out and torn down on the bench for a complete inspection, but, since it belongs to someone else I don't have that luxury.

Apparently the owner of this bike has been driving it with this vibration ever since he bought the bike 3 years ago, so, it doesn't seem as though it's something that falls off immediately, especially since this fellow has put many thousands of miles on his Wing with no problems arising from this vibration.

It's only a guess on my part that it could be the alternator driveshaft bearings and the reason I guess it's that is because the rotor is mounted on the end of it and this could cause a severe vibration because of it's weight if the bearings allow it to go eccentric on its axis. I wanted to try disconnecting the stator and see if the vibration went away, but, this stator is hard wired. If your stator still has the white plug on it, disconnect the stator (3 yellow wires) and take the bike for a ride and see if the vibration subsides at all. It if does go away, then that may verify that it is the alternator driveshaft causing the problem, if not then your guess is as good as mine without looking at the inside of the engine. My next guess would possibly be clutch I think.

Please let me know if and when you get to try your bike with the alternator disconnected. Just make sure the stator wires do not touch ground when they are disconnected.

I sure would have liked to diagnose this problem accurately while I had the bike here, but, now I'll have to wait till it finally breaks or gets really bad to find out for sure what the real problem is. I spent 2 hours driving this bike at high speeds today and it ran fine except for that stupid, unrecognizable vibration between 1800 and 2100 RPM. If I downshifted as soon as I felt that vibration you would never know the vibration was even there. It's very strange because I can run my 84 Aspencade down to 1500 RPM in 5th gear and roll the throttle on gently and pull away without ever feeling that same vibration. It's one of those things that will probably keep me up at night until I figure out what the heck the cause of the vibration really is.

If you find anything more let me know and I'll let you know likewise.

Vic
Hi Vic!
Now I've just tried my bike with the stator disconnected, the vibration still the same... Well, one more thing tested, but it doesn't eliminate the alternator driveshaft I guess. Unfortunely I don't know when or how the vibration in my bike started. My father imported the bike from USA in 1996. Last november he passed away, and he didn't drive it for the last three years. But I do remember him talking about the vibration, so it has been there for a while. I have to pull the engine, but I'm not sure yet when I'll have the time to do it. Anyway, I'll let you know as soon as I find something.

Larsernz
 

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Because of this annoying vibration in my wing, I did a search and found this thread, so I will reopen it and make some comments. The vibration in my bike started about two weeks ago andwas , to the best of my knowledge, engine RPM related. As I was throttling up thru 2500 to3000 RPM or engine braking down thru the same range, I could feel the vibration in the bars and in my seat. Above and below that range was smooth. Same thing with bike on center stand and tranny in neutral with wheel stationary.

So I read all the above and then started searching.-first the mounts--some were a bit loose but nothing too much. I torqued them up. Then I set my rpm to the vibration range, which seemed to stabilize at about 3000 RPM for the worst vibration, and locked the throttle to that and started to listen around with a big screwdriverto my ear-touching everywhere. When I got to the front right and laid the screwdriver on the engine guard, it near flew from my hand from the vibration. Then I noticed that this bloody chrome air dam, which I had removed and polished about two weeks ago, was really setting up a sympathetic (forced)vibration from the engine and was transferring it to the guard via a bolt end which it was touching. I shut her down and did some judiscious bending and prying in order to get some clearance between the two, and started her up again. To my surprise, 80% of the vibration was gone and nothing could be felt in the bars.

Went for a ride later and it was like a different bike. The whole thing was gone and so was a lot of noise.

That bloody air dam. Is it worth anything or should I just take it off. It is attached to engine hard points, and will vibrate because it is flat steel.

Any comments???

Hawker22
 

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Not too sure what part you are referring to as an air dam? Is it an aftermarket part or original?

Ah, that air dam. Thanks Twisty. That looks like an aftermarket item, the original sure wasn't chromed. The air dam on my 86 SEI was a lot smaller. Why not take it off and tape (Oh, Canada!) a stick across the lowers to keep them from flopping around and see what happens? At least it would eliminate another cause.
 

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If my bike was not jammed in beside my truck, I could get you a pic. It is a wedge shaped wing affair that bolts on just below the rad and supposedly directs more air up thru the rad. Comes very close to the front mud guard. Very close. It is chromed of course.

If you took my avitar and blew it up a bit, you may be able to see it.
 

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:
Hi Larsernz, if it was my own bike I'd have the engine out and torn down on the bench for a complete inspection, but, since it belongs to someone else I don't have that luxury.

Apparently the owner of this bike has been driving it with this vibration ever since he bought the bike 3 years ago, so, it doesn't seem as though it's something that falls off immediately, especially since this fellow has put many thousands of miles on his Wing with no problems arising from this vibration.

It's only a guess on my part that it could be the alternator driveshaft bearings and the reason I guess it's that is because the rotor is mounted on the end of it and this could cause a severe vibration because of it's weight if the bearings allow it to go eccentric on its axis. I wanted to try disconnecting the stator and see if the vibration went away, but, this stator is hard wired. If your stator still has the white plug on it, disconnect the stator (3 yellow wires) and take the bike for a ride and see if the vibration subsides at all. It if does go away, then that may verify that it is the alternator driveshaft causing the problem, if not then your guess is as good as mine without looking at the inside of the engine. My next guess would possibly be clutch I think.

Please let me know if and when you get to tryyour bike with the alternator disconnected. Just make sure the stator wires do not touch ground when they are disconnected.

I sure would have liked to diagnose this problem accurately while I had the bike here, but, now I'll have to wait till it finally breaks or gets really bad to find out for sure what the real problem is. I spent 2 hours driving this bike at high speeds today and it ran fine except for that stupid, unrecognizable vibration between 1800 and 2100 RPM. If I downshifted as soon as I felt that vibration you would never know the vibration was even there. It's very strange because I can run my 84 Aspencade down to 1500 RPM in 5th gear and roll the throttle on gently and pull away without ever feeling that same vibration. It's one of those things that will probably keep me up at night until I figure out what the heck the cause of the vibration really is.

If you find anything more let me know and I'll let you know likewise.

Vic
larsernz, just want to let you know that the fellow that owns thisGL1200 with the odd vibration called me to to inform me that he has put over 14,000 kilometers on his bike with no change to the vibration whatsoever. He even towed a trailer behind his Wing through the Rocky Mountains on his way from Vancouver to Central Ontario and has not had any problems at all with the bike since I went over it mechanicallythis spring.

My best guess would be alternator driveshaft, improperly balanced rotoror the clutch causing the vibration problem.

Vic
 
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