[Neil Chowney]

Hi everyone, just signed into this excellent forum after lurking around the edges for a bit and trying to see if my question may have been answered before.

Basically I don't have a goldwing, no, don't hang up and bear with me......

My 'mate', who shall remain nameless to avoid embarressment (see I do look after you Chris...) has gone and bought a 1200A that was a non runner which he was told just needed a new stator and to be fair when I pulled the motor and stripped it down the molten blob did indeed need replacing. So far so good...... but then the weirdness set in......

The two halves of the the crankcases are clearly a different colour to each other. One is silver and the other is more yellow. No way do they appear to be a matched factory pair. There is also gasket cement in and around every gasket face (including the head gaskets and the oil filter O ring....) so I know it's all been apart.

The starter motor is basically just hangin in there and has been 'adapted' to fit with the slots being taken out and packing washers used behind to get it to align. The starter is definitely a 1200 model. However it is only just making a seal in the crankcase when its pushed in. the O ring is only just in the crank case. It looks to me as though it needs to go in by another 10-15mm. If it did this however the chain and sprocket that the starter drives would not be parallel with the driven gear inside.

So I am wondering if someone has changed the crankcase on one side for an 1100 one...... which is why the 1200 starter will no longer fit properly.

I believe that all 1200 starters were the same?

From the parts book, the liners are part of the crankcases so they cannot be swapped around from one engine to another and and would have to be bored out to take the 1200 pistons. I am assuming that advanced muppetry has not taken place at this point and I don't have 1100 pistons on one side and 1200 on the other......

Has anyone come across this before?

I will take a couple of pictures and post up tomorrow.

...and one more thing, the right hand side cam sprocket was two teeth out so unless i'm really lucky, i'm going to be looking at bent valves as well.

Neil
(Used to have an 1100 Interstate in wineberry in 1985, sold it to buy a BMW 1000RS for which I would like to apologise).

 

[AZgl1800]

some pictures will really help, but that sounds like a bike put together from the left overs from previous repair jobs.

 

[DaveO430]

I don't think 1100 and 1200 cases would fit together but the 84 had a different starter than the rest of the 1200s. Obvious amateur with the sealer showing on all the gaskets.

 

[redwing52]

Man..... You have a project. First of all the crankcase halves can be interchanged just by bolting them together. The problem is when the original crankcase was manufactured it was machined as a unit. The odds are if you take 2 halves and bolt them together at random you will probably have an issue. Quite possible the crankshaft will not even turn unless the 2 halves were assembled and align bored. Over here we can buy a good used motor for a couple hundred dollars. I'm not sure they are as readily available over there but it might be worth looking. This just sounds like one of those projects that has no end. Sorry to say

 

[DaveO430]

Man..... You have a project. First of all the crankcase halves can be interchanged just by bolting them together. The problem is when the original crankcase was manufactured it was machined as a unit. The odds are if you take 2 halves and bolt them together at random you will probably have an issue. Quite possible the crankshaft will not even turn unless the 2 halves were assembled and align bored.

No, it's not like a VW engine. The main bearing caps bolt to the right case half but the transmission bearing bores are machined together so they may or may not match up.
Would have been good if you had tried to get it running before tearing it apart. If it ran and shifted OK then it might be worth trying to fix.

 

[Bike...and Dennis]

First, do not get tricked into thinking all 1200s use the same parts. That isn't true.

As Redwing said, finding another motor will probably be your best path. Or, just part out that bike and try to find a better (road ready) project.

 

[DaveO430]

...and one more thing, the right hand side cam sprocket was two teeth out so unless i'm really lucky, i'm going to be looking at bent valves as well.

No, 2 teeth off will not bend valves.

 

[redwing52]

No, it's not like a VW engine. The main bearing caps bolt to the right case half but the transmission bearing bores are machined together so they may or may not match up.
Would have been good if you had tried to get it running before tearing it apart. If it ran and shifted OK then it might be worth trying to fix.

Yup...you are right. I did rebuild a Vanagon water boxer once. Like the Chevys better.

 

[Bryanlj]

I can attest to not all 1200 being the same, pulser coils move from front to back, output gear straight cut to helical, heads with extra tubes to airbox.

I am in UK near Gloucester and have quite a bit of 1200 stuff if my mate aint binned it BUT the cases leaked by the lower mounting. Come back to me if you think i can help.

Also got good removable frame part which rot well in UK

 

[Neil Chowney]

Thanks everyone, that's all really helpful.

Yes, I would not have bought it without hearing it running but it's not my bike.....

Agree completely about the line boring of the bearings, very unlikely to work unless done and if they had spend hundreds on that, they would, should and could of forked out a few more shekels for a gasket set.

It's one of those things, start with one problem, buy new part, find another problem, buy more parts, find even more... when to stop and reach for the petrol and matches?

I'll do pictures.....

 

[Neil Chowney]

Engine number plate. Clearly a 1200, at least on that side.

Molten blob masquarading as a stator plate.....

Timing marks.... close but no cigar...

Starter motor. 1200 motor, just about making a seal, possibly... note the bodgery on the mounting bolts.
These are all packed out with washers behind to line the starter up.
I have looked again and there are at least two types of 1200 starter, the other one has the terminal much closer to the 'nose' of the starter. So could it just be the wrong 1200 one on there? They all seem to have the same projection into the case though so again, it does not feel like either woul dbe the right one.

Since posting the cases have been sprayed so I can really show the differences in colour. I looked back at a couple of polder photos and the yellowy colour is not uniformally over the whole case so I guess it MAY have been a constant petrol leak or similar solvent. Still does not help with the starter issue though.

Does the left hand case look like a 1985 1200 one?

Thanks everyone that's responded

 

[Bryanlj]

I will look up the number in the US id book for you tomorrow, i know on the used 1200 motor we got we used a ratchet strap to hold a 1000 starter on to test oil pressure before fitting, went in ok but bolts at rear nowhere near

 

[Bryanlj]

According to the numbers its a 1985 1200 Interstate where numbers started at 25**

 

[Neil Chowney]

Thanks Bryan.

 

[JamesPal]

Your starter looks the same as the starter on my '85. The way I understand GL11/12 starter, the 1980 to 1984 starters were the same. The GL1100 starters turned out to be on the light side for the longer stroke 1200 engine. In 1985 Honda increased the diameter of the starter motor by about 8mm. I always assumed any smaller starter would bolt up to and GL11/12. This may not be true, I have never tried it. The starter on my '81 has the terminal closer to the nose of the starter. Whilst you have the starter out of the engine, it would be worthwhile to disassemble it and grease the planetary gears.
You cannot run an 1200 crank in an 1100 cast. The deck height of thee 1200 is about 4mm taller than a 1100. Overall the 1200 is about 8mm wider than an 1100.

 

[Neil Chowney]

Thanks James, that's the sort of nugget of information that fills in a few gaps.

The starter is not fitting correctly so assuming that the cases are correct, which seems to be the case regardless of the discoloration on the right hand side one, then the starter must be wrong.

If it spins it over and does not leak then it's a job for another day. The first thing with this is to see if the motor runs and sounds OK. Not going to be spending any (more) money on this until we establish that.

Thanks everyone, i'll keep you posted.

 

[Neil Chowney]

Slight update, engine all back together (long wiat for some O rings and gaskets). Starter motor is back in to my satisfaction with spacers made up and a new O ring that will at least seal for now. I'm still convinced its the wrong one but it'll do until I make sure the motor is strong. Going to spin it over on the starter whilst it's out and make sure we have some compression before we go any futher as it's easier to dump it all in a ditch later in small convenient peices as opposed to one big assembled lump...........

 

[Neil Chowney]

Back again, well it's all progressing albiet slowly. There were so many bodges and shortcuts taken by previous owners that everytime I looked at something it needed therapy to make it fit for purpose. The tyres (tires ) were completely shot with very spongy sidewalls where brake fluid had been allowed to run over them, wires were hacked and cut off at random points, the fan motor had no wiring at all and had to be stripped down and new wires soldered onto the brushes. All the brake pipes were spongy and leaking, the headbearings were locked in the dead ahead position. the front fork seals were leaking and the bushes were shot. The rears needed the oil changed and the outsides rubbed down and painted as the chrome was peeling severely. Replaced all the hoses and pipes on and around the carbs as these were brittle and cracked. Cleaned out the petrol tank, had to replace one carb diaphragm and needle as the diaphram was split and the needle was bent. (How can you even do that...?)

Spun the motor over and we have compression on all cylinders so no bent valves.

Compression was all over the place though 90, 110, 120 and 145psi. I am hoping that the rings are a bit gummed up and will free off with a few miles of running. If not it's not too much of a pain to take the heads and pistons off in situ. It's just a question of money and this is a build on a budget.

Oild and water is now in along with new sparklers and just need to put the new stainless exhsust system, plonk on the fairing, connect up come more multiplugs and get a battery on it.

Oh yeah, back to the starter. It's definetly the wrong one. The cable had been extended to reach the starter terminal whch is nearer the base of the starter than it clearly should be. The cable had been extended by a flat peice of metal with insulation tape round it........ seriously, you couldn't make it up. The original terminal bolt was about 1mm away from touching the starter body....... utter bodgery.

 

[AZgl1800]

glad to see you are cleaning up the mess...

once you can put it on the road, just drive it like you stole it, and eventually the compression readings will level out near the same.

 

[Bryanlj]

You cant get pistons off with engine in situ as you have to split the crankcases, they are also bloody awful to rebuild