[rustybob11]

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I have a 1984 Honda GL1200I (47K miles) that I bought in Salt Lake City 2 months ago. After I paid the seller, herevealed that the bike sat for 2 years.I unloaded the trailer here in Albuquerque and rode it home. I found the clutch re-engaged after a couple minutes at the stoplight; worse was that the front lever operated left caliper only allowed slow stopping from 3 mph. The foot pedal operated brakes were decent.

I rebuilt the lever operated Master Cylinder, and the clutch master cylinder. I flushed all lines with a pint of DOT4. I took all calipers apart, cleaned them with brake cleaner, and cleaned and lubed the sliding parts. I took the shoes to my mechanic and he said they were OK. I flushed all lines with 16 oz of DOT4. I then bledall lines with 8 oz of DOT4 using a 1 man brake bleeder bottle that prevents air drawing into the bleeder.

The clutch now works OK with a small amount of free play at both ends of lever travel. The pedal operated brakes work OK with a small amount of free play and then a nice firm pedal.

The left front caliper and lever operated MC have not improved after MC and caliper rebuilds, cleaning and lubing slides, and bleeding using 8 oz of DOT4 using my bleeder bottle and alsomy Mityvac (with 4 oz reservoir that maintains a constant vacuum and prevents reverse flow to the bleeder). I tried a steady 20 psi and a steady 10 psi. I always bled the MC 10 times first.

The lever has slight backpressure until 75% of travel; it then gets firm, but I can pull it to the grip with my right hand. I did testing step by step:Iplugged the outlet of the MC; I got only 10% free travel and it developed a FIRM feel. Next, I plugged the banjo at the left caliper; I now got 50% free travel before a good firmness. I could pull the lever to the grip using both hands. With the system reconnected and bled, I got 70% free travel to a good firmness I could pull through with my right hand.

I blame a soft left caliper brake line that is expanding way too much and eating my MC output volume; change from 10% free travel for plugged MC to 50% free travel for MC and plugged left caliper banjo. This is a low volume, high pressure system.


So, I blame the lever MC to left caliper lines for my inability to get decent braking. 2 of my neighbors helped me feel the expansion of the front brake lines just above the calipers. The 3 of us agree the left caliper line is expanding at least twice as much as the right caliper line.My gut thinks it is a bad line. My mechanic thinks it just needspower vacuum bleeding.I disagree because I have bled the system with the 1 man bottle, 2 different Mityvacs, and have used a half galllon of DOT4 on that 1 brake!

I have read several posts where people switched to stainlessto solve their brake problems. Age, flexing, and high pressure swell rubber lines. The bike sat for 2 years.The left front caliper was stuck when I bought the bike; my rebuilding the lever MC increased line pressure and weakened the line.

Comments appreciated. Bob Rust Albuquerque Wineberry GL1200I with 47K miles:shock:

 

[Goldwinger1984]

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Hi Bob, I believe I went over this with you on another site. Did you check all the things I suggested? Corrosion in the hydraulic cylinders, wear at the caliper where the brake pads ride and air in the system????? If you still can't figure it out just spring for the new S.S. hoses and see if there's any difference. The new hoses can't hurt and original rubber hoses should be replaced every five years or sooner if contaminated.

One fellow at the other site even suggested that you turn the "suspect hose" around and try it in theother fluid direction postion. Just don't forget to keep everything clean and make certain that you use new copper gaskets under the banjo fittings.

Vic

 

[exavid]

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Bob, I think you answered your own question, and Vic is sayingit too, tired brake lines. As Vic, may as well get new SS braided lines or at least new OEM type. It wouldn't be wasted money even if it weren't the problem if these lines are old originals.

:waving:

 

[Goldwinger1984]

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Gee Paul, I sure miss looking at your old Wing. It looked so pretty in that beautiful green color. Your new one is very nice, but, it just doesn't have that pizzazz that the old green one had. Don't mind me, because I'm just prejudicedwhen it comes to4 cylinder Wings. Hope the new one is treating you good so far.

Any chance you'd send me a pic of the old 1200? [email protected]

Vic

 

[Dave Campbell]

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rustybob11 wrote:

The lever has slight backpressure until 75% of travel; it then gets firm, but I can pull it to the grip with my right hand. I did testing step by step:Iplugged the outlet of the MC; I got only 10% free travel and it developed a FIRM feel. Next, I plugged the banjo at the left caliper; I now got 50% free travel before a good firmness. I could pull the lever to the grip using both hands. With the system reconnected and bled, I got 70% free travel to a good firmness I could pull through with my right hand.

I blame a soft left caliper brake line that is expanding way too much and eating my MC output volume; change from 10% free travel for plugged MC to 50% free travel for MC and plugged left caliper banjo. This is a low volume, high pressure system.

Air bubble at the banjo fitting will do this every time, especially noting youve disassembled that joint. Ive fixed several GLclutch masters that were condemned as "not repairable" simply due to a bubble here.

This joint (master to hose)is the high point in the system.The masters are bad for trapped bubbles on the side of the piston (inside the master), especially if the piston has spiral grooves.

Remove the offending master (with full reservior and cap in place) and point the lever up, work the lever and see if the bubble comes out.

"Expanding hose" is a famous old wives tale. If the system cant develop force (and you know it isnt because there is no lever force) , it has no pressureto expand the hose. There must be pressure first, then the hose expands, your case is vice versa.

To prove it, put a set of calipers on the OD of the hose and squeeze the lever. If the hose is flaring out, itll show up on the calipers.

yes its a low volume, high pressure system but the master compensates for changes in volume from the fluid reservoir. The change in volume of the caliper is way more than change in volume of a "expanding hose" could ever be. Calculate the change in internal volume of the hose versus the volume of the caliper. No way...

 

[exavid]

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:

Gee Paul, I sure miss looking at your old Wing. It looked so pretty in that beautiful green color. Your new one is very nice, but, it just doesn't have that pizzazz that the old green one had. Don't mind me, because I'm just prejudicedwhen it comes to4 cylinder Wings. Hope the new one is treating you good so far.

Any chance you'd send me a pic of the old 1200? [email protected]

Vic

Done! And yes it's treating me very well, superbly quiet, smooth and lots of zip. A bit harsher riding than the SEI but then this one has Progressives front and back, and the SEI had fully controllable air pressure front and rear. The new one does a nicer job in the twisties though.

 

[Eamonn1200]

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It sounds like you know your stuff Bob. I'd just get the new brake linesas you seem to have eliminated other causes.

 

[rustybob11]

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Hello Again

I knew the left caliper brake line on my 1984 GL1200I had to be soft but I didn't like the shop manual saylng I had to remove the fairing and etc. I wasted hours trying to cheat and finally tore the front end off and got the SS line from a local vendor for $57. The lever feelis much better now.It uses 50% of lever travel to get very firm, compared to 80% travel to quite firm with old line.

The weather here in Albuquerque is into the 60s and intense sunshine from a clear sky. So I have started to replace plastic. This is my first encounter with a Wing; sure are a lot of body parts!

Thanks for all the good suggestions!

Bob Rust Albuquerque, NM

 

[exavid]

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Glad to hear you got it fixed Bob. Sounded like that would be the main part of the problem. Bleeding can be troublesome sometimes though, I've had stubborn air frustrate the #$%%^ out of me more than once even after using every method known to man to get rid of it.

:clapper::clapper::15red::clapper::clapper: