[Outlaw]

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How are you going to control the fuel flow and sequence on your injectors?

I'm planning on using a MicroSquirt EFI computer. The plan right now is to set it up for bank fire injection using two wideband o2 sensors (one for each bank). I haven't purchased the unit yet, as I'm still in the process of gathering all of the peripherals. (temp sensors, o2 sensors, o2 bungs, and anything else that I may be forgetting)


Here's a link to their web site. There is a LOT of information there.

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html


I still need to do a lot of reading on this, but I have a general idea of how things work. Of course, the devil is always in the details! :badgrin:

To be honest, I'm not really all that worried about the electronics part of the project. If I can follow directions and reason things out for myself, I'll be fine. I'm far more concerned with fitment issues of all the components. Things like... Is there enough room to put the injectors where I want to?... Where can I put the o2 sensors to make sure they are getting readings only from the bank they're supposed to be getting readings from... Where do I mount the MicroSquirt? What am I going to do about an airbox?.... These are all things that I'll get worked out in time....



Doug

 

[roscoepc]

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Doug, from what little I've read about the Megasquirt/Microsquirt set-up, it can be used without the O2 sensors, simular to what's on the fuel injected GL1200's.... Why go more complex than you need too?? :blackstuff:

 

[Outlaw]

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Doug, from what little I've read about the Megasquirt/Microsquirt set-up, it can be used without the O2 sensors, simular to what's on the fuel injected GL1200's.... Why go more complex than you need too??

This is a good question. Probably the most correct answer is "Because I like to torture myself"

But the answer I'm telling myself is: Efficiency, and it's also an attempt to make things easier when it gets to the tuning phase of the project. I want to take advantage of a feature called Automatic Mixture Control. This combined with their AutoTune software allows you to set up the computer to automatically monitor and update your VE tables for peak efficiency, horsepower, economy or whatever you want to set it up for. It should make things easier when I actually start running the bike. Once I've been running it for awhile and the tables are pretty well defined/set I can change the frequency the computer checks on things to very rarely. Of course, things are always changing with complex mechanical systems (wear and tear, etc...) so It's a good idea not to turn it completely off in my humble opinion.


Here's a link to that section of the MegaSquirt manual.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/amc.htm



Doug

 

[roscoepc]

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Outlaw wrote:

Doug, from what little I've read about the Megasquirt/Microsquirt set-up, it can be used without the O2 sensors, simular to what's on the fuel injected GL1200's.... Why go more complex than you need too??

This is a good question. Probably the most correct answer is "Because I like to torture myself"

But the answer I'm telling myself is: Efficiency, and it's also an attempt to make things easier when it gets to the tuning phase of the project. I want to take advantage of a feature called Automatic Mixture Control. This combined with their AutoTune software allows you to set up the computer to automatically monitor and update your VE tables for peak efficiency, horsepower, economy or whatever you want to set it up for. It should make things easier when I actually start running the bike. Once I've been running it for awhile and the tables are pretty well defined/set I can change the frequency the computer checks on things to very rarely. Of course, things are always changing with complex mechanical systems (wear and tear, etc...) so It's a good idea not to turn it completely off in my humble opinion.


Here's a link to that section of the MegaSquirt manual.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/amc.htm



Doug

Note to self: Play neither Poker or Chess with this man......

 

[kemoloney]

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Why not just save up some money, add it to the proceeds you get from selling your GL1500, and just buy a preowned GL1800 with EFI. I'm not knocking your project, in fact I think its quite innovative, but there are a lot of what-ifs that can and likely will occur in the end. What if it doesn't work? What if it works but you gain no improvement from your project such as better fuel economy or improved power or performance because everything wasn't and isn't able to be tuned perfectly with your design? Or worse of all, what if it ends up sounding and/or riding like a Harley. LOL!

I'm quite sure Honda used a team of engineers to design the injection system on the GL1800 and it had undergone much R & D before being perfected, yet you're going at it almost alone. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I look at your project and it makes me wanna turn around and run. But if you make it work, you will have created a first for the 1500. Good luck on your project. I will eagerly await the end results!

 

[Outlaw]

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I think that I explained the answer to your question pretty well here: http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum4/120779.html 

Look toward the end...

I could have bought an 1800, but that wasn't what I wanted. And, to be perfectly honest, this isn't the first time I've considered doing an EFI project on a motorcycle. It's just the first time I've done anything about it. As to the "what if's" you're right, there are a lot of them. And, they will all be overcome. There is no doubt in my mind that this will work. Any internal combustion engine can be run with EFI, it doesn't have to be designed for it. Quite the contrary, the EFI system is design/tweaked to work for the engine.

 

[Outlaw]

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Wow! This is a real pain to do on my phone... It isn't being the least little bit co-operative....

UPDATE:
I'm getting close to buying my MegaSquirt unit. I was thinking that I was going to go with MicroSquirt, but have found some limitations with that unit that I don't like. So now it looks like I'm going to go with MegaSquirt III.
The debate my friend and I are having right now is weather I should buy the kit, and build it myself or buy a pre-built unit. We each see both sides of the issue, and are pretty much of the same opinion. But, as always, we debate with each other on the pros and cons of each
opinion. So, I'm going to let you guys have some input here. Who would like to see me build the MegaSquirt from a kit, and who thinks I should buy a pre-built unit?

This should be fun! :action:





.

 

[roscoepc]

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Since you're building it from the intake up anyway, I'd go for the kit! It'll give you more experiance with what's where and how it works I believe and aid you in any troubleshooting you might need to do later...

 

[kemoloney]

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Outlaw wrote:

I think that I explained the answer to your question pretty well here: http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum4/120779.html%C2%A0

Look toward the end...

I could have bought an 1800, but that wasn't what I wanted. And, to be perfectly honest, this isn't the first time I've considered doing an EFI project on a motorcycle. It's just the first time I've done anything about it. As to the "what if's" you're right, there are a lot of them. And, they will all be overcome. There is no doubt in my mind that this will work. Any internal combustion engine can be run with EFI, it doesn't have to be designed for it. Quite the contrary, the EFI system is design/tweaked to work for the engine.

I twice tried to go to the link you posted to read your explained answer but each time I got a page not found error. I was just curious to know why you didn't want an 1800. I too own a GL1500 and really like it. But I hear so many people say that the piloting of a 1500 vs. an 1800 are night and day with the 1800 having much more power and a considerably smoother ride with improved handling. I've never test-ridden an 1800 so I can't compare. But for now, my wallet says that the 1500 is a perfect bike! lol! Hats off to you man. I really hope your project works and works well. I'm really looking forward to hearing positive results so you can do mine next!
:cheesygrin:

 

[Pwhoever]

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Here is the link: http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum4/120779.html

 

[Outlaw]

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Sorry about the bad link. My phone wasn't cooperating, and that seems to be one of the things it has problems with.

As for the 1800, I have nothing against them. I'm just a bit of a tightwad, and I like a challenging project occasionally.....



Doug

 

[RA72]

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You say you will weld in injector bungs
What is the supply for steel bungs
I have only seen aluminum
I might be able to use some steel ones someday

 

[Outlaw]

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You say you will weld in injector bungs What is the supply for steel bungs I have only seen aluminum I might be able to use some steel ones someday

Ross Machine Racing. I got them on Ebay. Here's the link. I hope it works for you. (I'm using my phone to write this)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Steel-Fuel-Injector-Boss-Bungs-Holders-Cups-Qty-1ea-/260845716340?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cbb9dc374

 

[kemoloney]

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Hey Outlaw, I'm a bit of a tightwad too and the GL1500 is just fine for me. Its definitely a lot cheaper to add EFI than to buy an 1800. I hope this project works. It could open up a whole new world for GL1500 owners. It could even lead to a mass production modification if you can pull it off and perfect it. Keep up the work. As for me, I have a GL1500 that won't even run after doing an engine swap from my old worn out 92 interstate engine to a 98 Aspencade engine with only 5800 miles on it. It looks nice though...lol! Hope I can figure out the problem soon. I'm tired of looking at it and not being able to hear it. I started a new post on it. Hopefully I'll learn something!

 

[pogoism9]

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I had worked out in my head a far less complex (but also far less efficient) FI system for a 1500 that used the stock manifolds, and an adapter with a GM TBI unit on top. It would run with micro, but short of dreaming it up, i haven't done anything.

 

[RA72]

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Outlaw,

Thanks for the heads up on the injector bungs,

I ordered 4 of them cause I want to play around with steel manifolds for the GL1000.

Good luck on the project, I might have to buy a 1500 and replicate it someday.



John kb0ou



Ride like the wind................ :cheesygrin:

 

[Outlaw]

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No problem John, glad I could help. :action:




I think a steel manifold would be a good way to go on your project. In my opinion the fewer rubber boots you have the better. They tend to dry out, crack and leak. At least, that's been my experience. Also, your bike is perfect for this because you don't have to worry about all that tupperware getting in the way of mounting things like injectors!



Good luck on your project.

 

[OnaWingAndaPrayer]

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Awsome project your undertaking . I will be watching with great interest along with others . Now I need to begin reading MegaSquirt technology . thanks for sharing your thoughts and photos as you build .

 

[Outlaw]

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Well, I finally got some time to work on this project again. I ran into some difficulties, and took a unique approach... If I were better at welding, and had access to a MIG or TIG welder I wouldn't have had to go this route, but all is not lost.


First, I started by cutting the holes for the throttle body connector tubes. ( I have no idea what the proper name for them is... )

Here I'm test fitting and getting ready to cut one of the tubes. I used 2" O.D. exhaust pipe.

And here are both tubes in place.

Now to test fit the throttle bodies.

Well then, everything is looking good so far. Now it's time to weld in the sides, and the center divider. After doing some research, I decided that it would be best to keep the volume of the manifold as close to stock as possible. There will still be a little more volume than stock with what I came up with, but It's far better than just leaving the whole box open. This is not pretty, but it will be functional when I'm done.

 

[Outlaw]

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And, this is when I ran into some difficulties with the top of the box. After I welded in the sides and center divider, I decided to weld in the throttle body mounting tubes. I got one welded in rather well I thought. Then I test fit it to the box and found out that the 16 gauge steel I was using had warped. Not cool. This ground everything to a halt. What am I going to do about this?.... Well, I decided not to chance using 16 gauge steel. I went to Lowe's and picked up a piece of 1/8" 3"x3' bar stock. I cut two pieces of the bar stock to the length of the widest portion of the box. Then put the two pieces side by side and welded them together right down the middle. It's a heck of a lot easier to weld thicker metal, and I was able to get a pretty decent weld on both sides. I then used the angle grinder to grind down the welds and it looked pretty decent. So, I welded on more mounting tubes, and here you see my first test fit.

Notice the epoxy putty around the base of the tubes? This is a solution I came up with to my marginal welding skills. I'm pretty sure that whatever I weld will NOT be air tight. So I use the epoxy putty here as a first line of defense against air leaks. Just push it into the weld (after grinding) to fill in any gaps that might leak. You'll see more of this in a minute. My second line of defense against possible vacuum leaks will be to paint the outside of the manifold with POR15. That stuff is tough as nails once it's on. It's resistant to most chemicals and would seal the manifold all by itself.


Speaking of vacuum leaks, this is a little off topic but I promise to get right back on in a minute... I removed the side panels from the Wing while I was home. Just to get a look at what kind of clearance I would have for the injectors so I could get a good idea where to put them. And, low and behold, I found a vacuum leak right off the bat! I fixed this, of course, and it seems to make a little difference in how well the bike runs. I'm pretty sure that once I get into it, I'll need to replace a lot of rubber tubing...