[AZgl1800]

Wow!

I am impressed with what you have done. Too bad the leaks showed up. Time spent to fix those would be better spent finishing up the final little tweaks to make it idle the way you want.

You have the right to be very proud of what you have done with your bike.
A true gem you have there. I am willing to bet it is the only FI GL1500 in this world.

 

[Bellboy40]

Great job Outlaw! :bow: That thing sounds awsome when you cranked on the throttle.

 

[Outlaw]

Thanks for the encouraging words.... There have been plenty of times I needed them with this project.... :grin:


I took the bike apart again last night to determine the causes of the leaks. Thankfully it was nothing serious. ( I was a little worried about the oil leak ) As it turns out, it was just a bolt that threads down into an oil journal, there are two of them, one on each side of the engine. I didn't realize it did that, and I didn't put a washer or any kind of thread tape on the bolt. So, it leaked a little while the engine was running. The coolant leak was the rubber o-ring on the water tube that connects to the right head. Kind of strange that it picked now to leak because I really didn't do anything to that tube.... But, I guess it's better that it happened now rather than out in the desert somewhere....

So now I have to wait two or three business days for my o-rings to arrive, which means that I may not get them until next Monday. Well, I guess that is ok. I still have to install my LED dash lights, and new speakers. So, I guess I'll play around with that for the next day or two. I am also planning on changing the fittings on the bottom of the manifold that are for the IAC air. I suspect that the holes in the fittings I used were too small to allow the bike to idle. I had it very close at one point, but never could get it to idle. Once I got it down to about 1100-1300 rpm it would just die.

I'll post my progress once I get it to the point I can take it out and ride it. Hopefully that will be within a week, two at the outside.






.

 

[Outlaw]

Yesterday I got my new speakers installed, and the LED dash lights. Here's a couple of photos of that...

One thing I've noticed is that there are two bright spots in each of the guages... I just read somewhere on the forum today that someone used white plastic over the top of the LED's to diffuse the light and reduce/eliminate the bright spots. I sure wish I had read that before I did this... I like the lighting better now, but would prefer it to be more even, and I am too lazy to take all that stuff apart again just to fix this.... :grin: Maybe if I get really bored someday, or have another reason to take everything apart I'll try it.

I just got a call from the Honda dealer, my o-rings are in. So, I will drive over and get those today. I'm not sure how much work I will get done on the bike today, but I should have it back together by the end of the weekend.

 

[1-Shot]

I like the colour of the gauges. Is the photo close to the real colour? Are those white LEDs or blue?

 

[Outlaw]

Actually, the guages look even more blue in real life. The bright spots in the photo look almost white, but there are no white spots in the guages... I was thinking about taking everything back apart and doing the white plastic modification to the bulbs to try and even out the light. My friend was telling me that I should drill holes in the back of the instrument cluster and add two more lights to balance everything out.... I thought about doing that, but it didn't look like it would be very easy to do that because of the way the plastic is in the back.

I used blue LED's from http://www.superbrightleds.com



Here is where I first read about changing to LED's in the instruments: http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums...com/forums/5-general-motorcycle-discussion-forum/366180-heres-new-led-pics.html He lists what bulbs to use if you're thinking about doing it.

And here is where I read about the white plastic mod: http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums...oldwing-technical-forum/385965-91-aspencade-instrument-cluster-led-upgrade.html

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

...The one drawback I see to using a single throttle body is that you then have to join both sides of the manifold to form basically a single plane manifold. This effects engine performance. It may not be all that bad, and it might even be good. I just don't know. Doug

Well, I haven't read this thread and only found this page of it through a Google search for something similar, so I'm not certain where you're at with your build. I can say this with certainty though:

Through modeled engine induction testing and then on to actual field trials of the modeled design applicable to a GL1000 with various internal modificatiions with a single plane manifold using a single Weber progressive 2-barrel carburetor I achieved a 12% increase in torque and a 26% increase in horsepower.

My modifications are many, yet simple.

I've a 100+ horsepower GL1000 using a single-plane intake and a single carburetor.

Should yours be so different as to not find the same ball-parked results?

Just food for thought wether carburetted or EFI.

BTW - I use a unitized (read: "one-piece") intake just like the 1800 (and the assembled 1500 "manifold"). Odd how some berate the "unitized" or "one-piece" manifold concept publically yet make their living on the back of Hondas fine engineering. As I know it, the M1 started with a one-piece intake and the 1800 has found it again.

Fortunately my manifold is heated via engine coolant and lends itself nicely to Carburetor, TBI, MPFI or Nitrous, ...or a mix of the four.

I did see the 2:1 adapter you've come up with for either air control or TBI before posting on my landing page. Nice job on it. When I get more time I'll read through the thread.

A pic of my first manifold for a visual...

 

[jodydewey]

The megasquirt is a great unit. I think you will run into issues with the computer realizing what the RPM is. You might either have to fabricate a reluctor wheel to get the RPM signal or figure out how to get it to get its input from the coils. The problem is the spark coils are waste spark style (3 coils for 6 cylinders) so you will have to have a divide by 2 in the RPM signal. I know this isnt breaking new ground with the megasquirt guys, someone has already done it so you might be able to find someone who has done it. Another thought about injectors - use a GM throttle body from an S10 pickup. It has one injector and a single throttle body which would be super easy to install and set up for the megasquirt.

 

[rottie]

I have been following this from the beginning. Great job.:claps::bow:

As for the tackometer, I believe the Mega squirt has the capabilites to make it where you need. Besides, any divide by 2/4/8/etc is easy peasy.
Other divide (5/10 and others) by are realatively simple with the available logic chips out there. Odd divide by may require an extra gate or two.

 

[ghostvet]

Keep it coming!


Don't be too worried about your welding skills- mine are worse- if it works, who could've done better?

I love the fab part.

 

[Outlaw]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I've been on vacation for awhile now, and haven't had a chance to work on the bike. I have it with me (in the trailer along with my FZR). My intention was to work on the tuning while I'm on the road. So far I haven't been able to do that.

I also have to do a modification to the MegaSquirt so that I can utilize 2 knock sensors. I want to do that before I get into the serious tuning. As far as the hardware goes, the bike is pretty much completely re-assembled.

I did manage to fry the battery because I wasn't used to my friends charger and left a switch in the wrong position over night.... well, not overnight, but several hours until we started smelling something bad.... I guess I'm lucky I didn't set it on fire!

So, now I need to get a new battery for it. No big deal. I guess I'll be more careful with the charger from now on.... I'm not sure when I'll actually get to it. But, I'll post when I have something to tell everyone. Hopefully that will be: "Hey everyone! I'm riding it and it runs great!" :action:


.

 

[tlbranth]

I have to ask, (I used to have a LTD), why would you ever want to get rid of fuel injection? I ride my bike year round in Detroit. Only about 4 to 6 weeks a year I can't ride. My LTD was great expecially in the cold weather. My GL1000 runs great, but when it is cold, (engine that is, can be 60 out), it is a bit rough for the first few blocks. Will want to stall, etc. My LTD, no matter the weather, 95 or 25, get on, start it up, and off I go never thought about stalling ever. I will have to take a serious look at putting EFI on my GL1000, it just makes everything so much nicer.

Tom

Tom, I'm shocked. You don't want to toy with that beautiful rack of inaccessible, complex, solex-knockoffs?

 

[Flyboygus]

Keep up the good work, I am rooting for you!

Would this help in checking that your fuel injection system and injectors are working as you desire:
Its and air/fuel ratio meter. Since you have the duel setup on the intake you will be able to see the left and right side separately,,,, just a thought
http://shop.usa.kosonorthamerica.com/p/air-fuel-ratio-gauge-wideband/gauges_gauges?pp=12&pp=12

 

[Outlaw]

Keep up the good work, I am rooting for you!

Would this help in checking that your fuel injection system and injectors are working as you desire:
Its and air/fuel ratio meter. Since you have the duel setup on the intake you will be able to see the left and right side separately,,,, just a thought
http://shop.usa.kosonorthamerica.com/p/air-fuel-ratio-gauge-wideband/gauges_gauges?pp=12&pp=12

Thanks for the encouragement

As for your suggestion, I can do that on my laptop and I don't feel the need to see what my AFR is while I'm driving down the road. Once I get it running reliably, I shouldn't have to make any more adjustments anyway. I think there are some die-hard types that use these gauges... Probably on race cars where they are constantly tuning.

One of the nice features of MegaSquirt is that I can log my runs on an SD card while I'm driving, and then analyze them on the laptop when I get home.

As far as my progress goes, I'm a little stuck right now. I'm talking with the guys over in the MegaSquirt forums to see if I can figure out what is wrong. The bike doesn't want to start. It never has really. I've been able to get it started through sheer determination, but it is practically impossible. I also am having idle issues... (as in, it won't) I've changed a lot of things, and there are a lot of possibilities that are in my mind right now. It's going to take awhile to sort them all out. Unless I get lucky, and I'm not very lucky....




.

 

[Flyboygus]

Just a thought on why it may not be starting,,, did you use the fuel injectors "and nozzles" from the donor 1800?
If so, on the 1500, each cylinder has the volume of a 250, whereas the volume on the 1800 is 300. The injector nozzle may be running too rich.

I do not know if it is possible to change nozzles on the 1800 injectors like you can on aftermarket fuel injectors.

Would it be possible to use the injector nozzle from a 2013 Honda CRF250R?

This may help it start and give you excellent gas mileage.

Hope this helps to keep the momentum going forward

 

[Outlaw]

Just a thought on why it may not be starting,,, did you use the fuel injectors "and nozzles" from the donor 1800?
If so, on the 1500, each cylinder has the volume of a 250, whereas the volume on the 1800 is 300. The injector nozzle may be running too rich.

I do not know if it is possible to change nozzles on the 1800 injectors like you can on aftermarket fuel injectors.

Would it be possible to use the injector nozzle from a 2013 Honda CRF250R?

This may help it start and give you excellent gas mileage.

Hope this helps to keep the momentum going forward

The injectors are close enough in size that they should work without any problems. There are people who are using injectors that are way larger than what they need for their applications who have been successful with MegaSquirt.

The amount of fuel that is injected into the cylinder is regulated by the amount of time the injector is opened at a given fuel pressure. There are different sized injectors, but from what I've seen the nozzles are built into the injectors and not interchangeable.... That is the way it is with the 1800 injectors. I'm not familiar with the older fuel injection systems, maybe that is the way it worked before EFI.

I'm beginning to think that the problems I'm having has something to do with the ignition side of things. That's what I'm investigating now. One item of particular interest to me is the crank trigger. I'm seeing a lot of noise there when I'm cranking the engine. Interestingly enough, when I had the bike started and ran the tooth logger, everything was looking real good. But, today while cranking the engine It's not so good, and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm getting noise from the starter.... This could lead to erratic behavior...

One of the lessons I've learned from all of this is to be very methodical and to write down the results of every setting I've tried. My memory just isn't good enough to remember what I did 2 days ago and what the results were... As a result, I've had to go back and repeat tests that I've already completed because I didn't write down the results.... So, for now, it's lots of starting attempts with different settings and lots of logging... Followed by lots of charging the battery...

I'm very tempted right now to hook up the OEM ECU for spark control and just use the MegaSquirt for fuel... Of course, if I'm not getting a reliable crank trigger then even that won't work.






.

 

[Flyboygus]

Thank you for the update.
I agree with you, one must write everything down and use the scientific method of only changing one thing at a time.
I hear what you are saying about the ignition problem. Is there a way to split the signal so that the same information goes to the OEM ECU and the MegaSquirt so you can get a spark and fuel at the same time from two different systems?

 

[Outlaw]

Thank you for the update.
I agree with you, one must write everything down and use the scientific method of only changing one thing at a time.
I hear what you are saying about the ignition problem. Is there a way to split the signal so that the same information goes to the OEM ECU and the MegaSquirt so you can get a spark and fuel at the same time from two different systems?

Yes, I can run the OEM ECU for spark and MegaSquirt for the fuel. It's a bit of a pain, but I can do it. I just have to install another VR sensor for the MegaSquirt and then figure out the value of the bias resistor in the OEM ECU for the coolant temperature sensor. (and hope that they only use one) That way I can share the coolant temperature sensor with both the MegaSquirt and OEM ECU. I'm not too worried about the IAT sensor as I just disconnected the OEM unit and used a different one for the MegaSquirt... So, I can just plug that back in and find a place to mount it in the airbox. It doesn't even need to be in the airbox at first, just to get the bike running. Then I'll have to run another vacuum line to the OEM ECU... I think that should just about cover it. After that, I just have to disable the ignition functions of the MegaSquirt, and re-hook the coils up to the OEM ECU.

Wow! That sounds way more complicated than it really is.

 

[jjones0187]

In the utube video sounds like it runs fine but soon as the throttle bore closes it starves for air and quits. after reading about ur no idle issue and seeing ur intake design, I was thinking wouldnt the idle air control valve sensor work better under the throttle body? so when the throttle bore is closed the idle air control sensor can still allow enough air into the intake runners to the heads to allow the engine to idle, I dont see how the IAC could ever work correctly as a remote design, as u said in one of the earlier posts the hose and fittings must be restricting the air flow? u made great progress with this project, now its time to work out the bugs.

 

[Flyboygus]

Good point, is the IAT needed for Megasquirt to replicate a cold start or "choke" mode?