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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some one tell me how it came up that a lifter on a GL1500 can pump up too much?
The lifter has to be pumped up to work. If it bleeds down, it is BAD! The lifter will NOT expand beyond what it was when installed.
We have worked on MANY GL1500 in our shop. Never had a issue where the lifter held the valve open. Was either gummed up valves or mechanical error/issue.
If you think the lifter is opening the valve(mainly intake) then you need to look somewhere else. Have seen many have a old gas gum/varnish on them and stick the valve and some to where the piston hit the valve.
The way the valve train is made on these, There is NEVER a need to adjust them. That was a selling point.
The only times I remove the lifters is
1) they are noisy and not working
2)rebuilding or repairing the engine
 

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Many Post like this one on the forum cant explain why and how it just works ....

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums...orum/433505-1500-goldwing-no-compression.html

I did it once after we started a 1500 who was parked for 5 years first it was ok the folowing day we wanted to start and it was just like this post

is it a ghost ???? dunno dont care,,, I follow the reverse rear Wheel and it worked the bike was sold and never did it after :?:?
 

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Some one tell me how it came up that a lifter on a GL1500 can pump up too much?
The lifter has to be pumped up to work. If it bleeds down, it is BAD! The lifter will NOT expand beyond what it was when installed.
We have worked on MANY GL1500 in our shop. Never had a issue where the lifter held the valve open. Was either gummed up valves or mechanical error/issue.
If you think the lifter is opening the valve(mainly intake) then you need to look somewhere else. Have seen many have a old gas gum/varnish on them and stick the valve and some to where the piston hit the valve.
The way the valve train is made on these, There is NEVER a need to adjust them. That was a selling point.
The only times I remove the lifters is
1) they are noisy and not working
2)rebuilding or repairing the engine
If it has to be "Pumped Up" to work, then how does the engine start to begin with, since you need oil pressure to pump it up, and in your own words "If it bleeds down, it is BAD!". Back in my circle track racing days, NOBODY used hydraulic lifters b/c of the problem of floating the valves at high RPM.

The fact the this problem has happened a few times suggests that there is something to this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ever had one out and pumped it up? Once they are up. They shouldn't leak down. If they do they are BAD!
I have NEVER taken one out to do anything to it if it wasn't making a noise! Like I said. If the valve is open. It has to do with the eccentric or the valve train else where. The lifter may bled down some...but it will NOT bleed up more than its mechanical limits causing the valve to open.
DJ Norm said a good thing. "setting for 5 years" I could see where that may let one bleed down. BUT NOT open a valve.
 

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Some one tell me how it came up that a lifter on a GL1500 can pump up too much?
The lifter has to be pumped up to work. If it bleeds down, it is BAD! The lifter will NOT expand beyond what it was when installed.
We have worked on MANY GL1500 in our shop. Never had a issue where the lifter held the valve open. Was either gummed up valves or mechanical error/issue.
If you think the lifter is opening the valve(mainly intake) then you need to look somewhere else. Have seen many have a old gas gum/varnish on them and stick the valve and some to where the piston hit the valve. ----
The complaints that I have seen says that they loss compression on the whole engine. Are you trying to tell me that ALL the valves gummed up ALL at once.
 

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Hey guys I just experienced lifter problems. Was changing rear cam seal and took cam holder off before new seal came in so had to leave it off several days till seal came in. Left it laying in oil drain pan. When I put it back together the valves on #4 cylinder were staying open so had no compression there. Took adjusters out and bled all the oil out and put them in a cup of sea foam and bled the air out and put them back in and problem solved. So air lock can cause adjusters to be to big and hold valves open.
 

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The complaints that I have seen says that they loss compression on the whole engine. Are you trying to tell me that ALL the valves gummed up ALL at once.
y'only need one valve per cylinder to not fully close to drop compression in that cylinder. -- on a 4-stroke, something supposed to be open nearly half the time anyway (especially looking at overlap and ATDC close times)...

In a 4-cylinder, it'd be easy to say that 2'd be venting or sucking while one was compressing and one was firing... but strap 2 more into that and the offset is 60* so you've got a bunch of "kinda open" and "kinda closed" valve states -- not to difficult to imagine a little air lock sneeking into quite a few "kinda" open valves so the leak pressure at cranking speed... Seen it too many times to deny it (just liek dating a fat chick)
 

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about the lifter Mistery I Wonder nor mutch can hapen with those to all pressurised at once to the point that they have to be bled of that pressure......

JUST A BRAIN FART : :baffled: I Wonder !!!! in rare ideal condition if the engine stop rotation while the oïl pressure is high so the oïl galery stay presurised after engine is killed ,,,then that oïl pressure could get into the lifter to the point that slowly the inner and outter oïl pressure would equalized and block it in (quantity is very small Inside lifter) . then when one is starting the engine with blocked lifter valve do not operate properly or kill compression :? VOILA...
 

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I'm sure it can and has happened to a few of you, but maybe it is the oil filter holding the pressure or extra volume of oil. I think the filter has an anti-drain back valve in it, doesn't it? If so, try taking off the oil filter to release the extra amount of oil before taking the lifters out. Just a thought, what do you think???
 

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Ive seen a retainer clip pop out of a lifter on a car engine and cause a lifter to flote a valve!
 

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I'm sure it can and has happened to a few of you, but maybe it is the oil filter holding the pressure or extra volume of oil. I think the filter has an anti-drain back valve in it, doesn't it? If so, try taking off the oil filter to release the extra amount of oil before taking the lifters out. Just a thought, what do you think???
No, the oil has too many openings to bleed the pressure from for it to hold any pressure for even an instant after the engine stops. When I first heard of this condition the only thing that came to mind was over revving possibly with a high speed downshift and floating the valves long enough for the adjusters to fully extend. But that would be an immediate loss of power and some of them have happened with the bike sitting, or maybe just as the engine was shut down.
 

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I'm sure it can and has happened to a few of you, but maybe it is the oil filter holding the pressure or extra volume of oil. I think the filter has an anti-drain back valve in it, doesn't it? If so, try taking off the oil filter to release the extra amount of oil before taking the lifters out. Just a thought, what do you think???
RKB53 That could be a good point and we could ask what filter is on the bike when this happens... I looked at the oïl galery and oïl flow and it open at all end there should not be any residual pressure.:wtf::?
 

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I like a good debate. Ok, I have to throw my two cents in. My theory is that the bike is fine when it is shutdown. There is a relationship between the force of the lifter/adjuster and the valve spring. That relationship is that the spring MUST be greater than the force of the lifter/adjuster. The force of the adjuster is controlled directly by oil pressure. That is that if you increase oil pressure to the adjuster/lifter you WILL increase the force it has. Again, as long as that force is less than theat of the valve spring no big deal. The valve will be closed when it should be closed. What about a cold start and to make things more interesting add heavier oil. When you crank the engine the oil pressure spikes to a point thet the force of the lifter is greater than the valve spring. I know that the oil pump has a relief valve but what if it happens in spite of that. High oil pressure, increased ofrce on the lifter/adjuster and it over powers the valve spring pressure. That's my best guess but I reserve the right to change my mind. I don't believe that backing the engine up and allowing the lifters/adjusters an opportunity ti leak down is a coincidence and the bike runs. I believe the adjuster/ lifters are in fact pumped up too high.
As far as the oil filter check valve I respectfully disagree. The only purpose of that valve is to prevent oil from running back to the pan. Not truly holding pressure. The olld Chrysler Hemi's had issue like that as the filter was tipped up and the gravity would let the oil return to the pan. Oh, so did the Ford truck 300. Then when they would start they had just the opposite problem. They could have lifter noise for a short time until the oil filled the filter again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I will say this. I have NEVER had or seen a problem such as a lifter making a valve stay open on a Goldwing. I have worked on bikes for 11 professionally(Honda Red Level Technician), cars for 15 years before that ( ASE certified Master Technician). I know about the solid lift cams. But you can float the valves on them if you do not match up valve springs to lift of cam! It is all about rpm's and the valve being able to close. Same on hydraulic lifters also.
Getting back to to lifter on Goldwing. We have had valves bend because of "gunk/varnish" on them. The valve springs on a GL1500 you can push with your fingers. They are very weak. Yes the piston can hit the valve if it is open too much.
The lifter itself if anything will COLLAPSE some over time.It will NOT expand! The only theory I can come up with it the eccentric has moved slightly/some and cause the valve to open. Because it had set for a LONG time and the oil actually drained out. I have replaced lifters and the eccentric gets turned slightly and will hold valve open OR make a lot of noise! But the ONLY time I have replaced the lifter was because they were noisy! IF you replace the lifters, you need to measure and shim them accordingly.

Until I actually experience this "lifter expansion" I won't understand.
 

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I am also a retired ASE master certified gas and diesel mechanic. It is very rare but I have seen weak valve springs cause a similar issue but only on a single cylinder. It can be hard to find when the engine RPM was low so was the oil pressure and the cars ran fine. When the engine speed increased the oil pressure increased, the lifter pumped up to a point that it would overcome the weak spring and create a misfire. Slow down and it ran fine again. The eccentric you are talking about is rotated by the adjuster/lifter. It seems that it is a very unusual situation but there only seems to be one explanation. Somehow the lifter/adjuster over adjusts. One member discovered his bike would not start. After much trial and error discovered all cylinders were low on compression. Near zero. Checked timing belts etc, only to find out the valves are being held open. He loosened all the bolts and compression was back. Tighten back in place and right back to zero compression. Drained the lifter/adjuster and it started first crank and ran fine. Never did it again as far as I know. However there was another member who had it reoccur. No one has ever come up with an absolute answer. Everybody gets a guess until then. Pick your poison.
 
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