GL1500 stall

9565 Views 78 Replies 18 Participants Last post by toolcraft4100, Jul 10, 2013

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · May 7, 2013

I just bought a used 1991 1500 with 93,000 miles. It seems to be in pretty good shape, but the PO has no service records and the bike needs some attention. The price was right, but I should have looked her over better and test-rode her longer.
Last night I was riding with a passenger (maybe 350lbs. total). Temps were in the high sixties and we got into some traffic. Sat and idled for several minutes at a time. Went maybe a mile idling at lights and creeping along. Several times the bike stalled or almost stalled when taking off from a stop. Seemed to idle ok and ran ok once we got moving. Started right up when I killed it, but I'm not sure what the stalling means. The temp guage needle was pointed straight up when we were in traffic and dropped back down when we got moving again.
Where should I start troubleshooting?

HoganJr

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toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #21 · May 11, 2013

thank you

thanks for all the excellent advice. I turned up the idle speed, but it does not want to stay at 850. If I turn it up so it idles at 850+/- it jumps up to like 1250 or 1500 after I open the throttle (the idle stays high, does not drop back down).
If I put it in gear, even while holding the clutch, the idle will drop back down though. I hope all that makes sense. I'm hoping to run the seafoam through it tomorrow, too.

hoganJr

Redeye1620

· #22 · May 11, 2013

toolcraft4100 said:
thanks for all the excellent advice. I turned up the idle speed, but it does not want to stay at 850. If I turn it up so it idles at 850+/- it jumps up to like 1250 or 1500 after I open the throttle (the idle stays high, does not drop back down).
If I put it in gear, even while holding the clutch, the idle will drop back down though. I hope all that makes sense. I'm hoping to run the seafoam through it tomorrow, too.

hoganJr

Sounds like a possible vacuum leak.

SCB

· #23 · May 12, 2013

toolcraft4100 said:
thanks for all the excellent advice. I turned up the idle speed, but it does not want to stay at 850. If I turn it up so it idles at 850+/- it jumps up to like 1250 or 1500 after I open the throttle (the idle stays high, does not drop back down).
If I put it in gear, even while holding the clutch, the idle will drop back down though. I hope all that makes sense. I'm hoping to run the seafoam through it tomorrow, too.

hoganJr

I'm wondering if maybe your throttle adjustment screw is sticking. Pretty common on these 1500's and known to cause a surging condition. If it's sticky enough I can imagine it causing 'touchiness' to the point it stalls at 750 and overrevs at 850. You should be able to turn the adjustment screw smoothly and make small adjustments to the idle speed without any sticking. I would try lubing the idle adjustment screw and cable until it's working perfectly.

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #24 · May 20, 2013

thanks again. just got back from a week-long vacation where I did not touch a computer the whole time. I'm gonna run this tank with seafoam through the carbs and see if that helps at all. Hopefully this weekend I'll pull some plastic off her to change oil, filter and plugs. Maybe get enough plastic off to access the carbs. The idle adjustment is real sticky and I don't see how it can be lubed from the knob end.
What am I looking for as far as vacuum tubes? Are there multiple vacuum tubes connected to the carbs?

HoganJr

jfairman

· #25 · May 21, 2013

SCB said:
I would try lubing the idle adjustment screw and cable until it's working perfectly.

i have found my idle screw adjustment to be very hard to turn. how is it best lubed?

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #26 · May 22, 2013

making some progress

I had planned to ride a full tank of gas through this bike before I started any teardown, but it's no fun to ride if you can't pull away from a stoplight with authority or turn a corner with a little style.
So I pulled off everything down to the air filter (found alot of improvised and missing fasteners and sloppy electrical tape), started the engine and looked down into the carbs. When I twisted the throttle fuel would drip out of the brass nozzles the protrude into the throat of each carb. I assume the fuel should come out in more of a spray or at least a squirt.
Does this condition indicate a specific problem?

Thank You

HoganJr

newday777

· #27 · May 22, 2013

jfairman said:
i have found my idle screw adjustment to be very hard to turn. how is it best lubed?

Actually they are a solid cable to the Carb linkage, just turn it back and forth a few times then reset the idle speed. They are tight by design. You could lube it at the Carb but will have to remove the air box.

newday777

· #28 · May 22, 2013

Yes Hogan there should be a quick spray out those brass nozzles. Must be plugged carbs. Try putting Seafoam directly into the carbs from the line out of the vacuum petcock going to the carbs then idle it a minute to get it in the carbs to soak a couple days. Might help.

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #29 · May 23, 2013

newday777 said:
Yes Hogan there should be a quick spray out those brass nozzles. Must be plugged carbs. Try putting Seafoam directly into the carbs from the line out of the vacuum petcock going to the carbs then idle it a minute to get it in the carbs to soak a couple days. Might help.

newday777, I really appreciate your expert advice and that of the other forum members. Thanks for your patience and expertise.
Is it possible, given the construction of the 1500 carbs, to clean those nozzles from the outside, like with one of those very tiny carb jet cleaner tools that you insert into the jet?

hoganJr

DriverRider

· #30 · May 23, 2013

There is a pump diaphragm which determines your amount of fuel discharged from the nozzles, that is the likely culprit.

That problem will not cure the surging of RPM at idle which is a lean condition caused by plugged carbs or vacuum leaks.

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #31 · May 23, 2013

DriverRider said:
There is a pump diaphragm which determines your amount of fuel discharged from the nozzles, that is the likely culprit.

That problem will not cure the surging of RPM at idle which is a lean condition caused by plugged carbs or vacuum leaks.

Pump Diaphram, that's a new term for me. I need to get a shop manual.
I'm not gonna be able to access any vacuum lines until I remove that plate or tray that the air filter sits in and I am reluctant to do that until I have some diagrams and instructions. I guess I'll button her back up and run some treated gas through her and hope that fixes the problem(s).

hoganJr

GreatWhiteNorth

· #32 · May 23, 2013

I've been troubleshooting a similar problem on my '91 GL1500SE. It would run smooth and gradually loose power. I've changed the most likely parts already:
- fuel filter,
- fuel pump,
- temporarily bypassed vacuum fuel petcock (to prove it wasn't the problem),
- replaced alternator with a new Compufire...
All of the above didn't change anything... time to get really serious;
- pulled carb, inspected the rubber diaphragms (no cracks or pinholes),
- with the carb removed I thoroughly inspected the vacuum lines... they're in great shape/no problem found,
- took carb to best Goldwing mechanic in the city for thorough carb inspection... he found the float height set a tad high (which he corrected), but otherwise OK.
- next most likely thing to check is the ignition coils, and I've just replaced them (the carb needs to be removed, as does the rad overflow tank, to access the ignition coils BTW).
I mention all this as troubleshooting these kinds of issues can be difficult and not inexpensive - the work I've done to date would've cost me dearly at a dealer. I'm about to reinstall the carb and shoot for a test drive when I've got it back together enough. Complicated machines! Interested in hearing what fixes your problem.

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DeepSeaDiver

· #33 · May 26, 2013

2

Vaccum hose replacement

This may be your problem. A surging idle that fluctuates from 850 or so RPM's to over 1,000, consistently at a stop light, is indicative of the manifold equalization pressure hose (or whatever its called) collapsing and definitely having a hole in the 90 degree bend.
This condition will cause hesitation, or stumble on acceleration from a dead stop. There is a noticeably louder "exhaust sound" coming from the top of the engine, and/or whistling at low RPM's and decreased MPG's.
It is an easy fix if you are mechanically inclined. You do have to remove a lot of plastic (might as well do the sub filters while you are in there) and move the carbs out of the way. I did not completely remove the carbs, just the cables in the front, rocked that carbs out of the manifold boots, and bungeed them up and to the left. Replaced the tube with high pressure fuel tubing from Autozone and put everything back together. While in there I removed the boots, cleaned, and coated them with "Hose Helper". They slid right back into place. Remember this, there are two sets of clamps, one for the manilfold, one for the bottom of the carbs, both Phillips head.
I also removed the "fine adjustment " knurled knob cable completely apart, cleaned and lubed it, replaced it, and now I don't need to touch it or the choke to start. And it purrs at 70 to 80 mph. What a difference.
Jim Martino's web site is the go to site to perform this easy, and I think if you have a 1500, must do fix. Do it now or suffer later.

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exavid

· #34 · May 26, 2013

For over the 100,000+ miles I rode my '93 I had the idle set at 750 and never had a hesitation or stalling problem. The fact that toolcraft's bike runs better, even when warmed up, with the choke on at all indicates the carbs have a problem. Sounds like the idle jets as well as the midrange isn't feeding fuel properly. I've done a lot of stop and go riding on the world's longest parking lot also known as the I-5 from Fort Lewis to Everett, WA. In warm weather. I've never seen a problem with the battery voltage even with a lot of idling while waiting for traffic to move. From toolcraft's indications it seems his alternator and battery are performing normally. I don't see anything in his description of his problem to think there's an electrical problem. I seriously doubt changing spark plugs will do much of anything to the problem. I let my plugs in my 1500 go to almost 100,000 miles before changing and even then they weren't really in bad condition.

DeepSeaDiver

· #35 · May 26, 2013

"The fact that toolcraft's bike runs better, even when warmed up, with the choke on at all indicates the carbs have a problem."
You are spot on concerning the choke. I use my choke for starting and within 30 seconds completely back it off unless we are in the sub-40 degree weather and then I only use it for about a quarter mile and immediately back it off. Anything beyond that tells me there is something amiss.
I will not denigrate SeaFoam, it has its uses.
I will not contradict those who believe the ritual of twisting the knurled knob like a hula hoop is actually doing something beneficial to your carburetors.
My all time favorite, let your bike idle untill the fans kick on because that resets the ECM and all wil be right in the world.
Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. Everything else is magic.

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #36 · May 28, 2013

DeepSeaDiver;2142770Suck said:
I love that quote! And I don't believe in magic.
I observed that fuel was dripping from those brass nozzles in the carb throats whenever I twisted the throttle at idle and I thought certainly that was the problem with my bike. So I took a small-diameter vacuum hose, pushed it onto each nozzle and shot carb spray cleaner in the other end. Then I changed the oil and installed new plugs. When I started the bike I could twist the throttle and see a strong spray of fuel directly into the carb! Awesome!
But the next day when I rode it the problem was basically the same.
So I guess I'll start looking at vacuum hose replacement. Starting with the one you describe.

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #37 · Jun 3, 2013

2

still at it

DeepSeaDiver said:
This may be your problem. A surging idle that fluctuates from 850 or so RPM's to over 1,000, consistently at a stop light, is indicative of the manifold equalization pressure hose (or whatever its called) collapsing and definitely having a hole in the 90 degree bend.
This condition will cause hesitation, or stumble on acceleration from a dead stop. There is a noticeably louder "exhaust sound" coming from the top of the engine, and/or whistling at low RPM's and decreased MPG's.
It is an easy fix if you are mechanically inclined. You do have to remove a lot of plastic (might as well do the sub filters while you are in there) and move the carbs out of the way. I did not completely remove the carbs, just the cables in the front, rocked that carbs out of the manifold boots, and bungeed them up and to the left. Replaced the tube with high pressure fuel tubing from Autozone and put everything back together. While in there I removed the boots, cleaned, and coated them with "Hose Helper". They slid right back into place. Remember this, there are two sets of clamps, one for the manilfold, one for the bottom of the carbs, both Phillips head.
I also removed the "fine adjustment " knurled knob cable completely apart, cleaned and lubed it, replaced it, and now I don't need to touch it or the choke to start. And it purrs at 70 to 80 mph. What a difference.
Jim Martino's web site is the go to site to perform this easy, and I think if you have a 1500, must do fix. Do it now or suffer later.

DSD, thanks for the advice and the pics. I rode the bike Saturday morning and it seems to run fine at first, but after a mile or so I had to do some stoplights and parked a few times and the symptoms returned. If I can keep rolling I can let out the clutch in first gear and take off with just a little hesitation, but if I have to come to a complete stop it wants to stall when I let out the clutch. If I grab the clutch again, immediately after letting it out, revi t up and let it out again, it will go. I had this down to a science, but it doesn't work well when I'm stopped facing uphill!I removed all the plastic and the air filter and tray.

These first two pics show both ends of the vacuum hose that connects the two intake mainifolds. I found no rubber under the carbs and it looks like someone has already replaced this hose. I sprayed carb cleaner on the hose when the bike was idling and blew propane at it and noticed no change in rpms. Could it be that without clips on the ends it still leaks above idle?I'm still hoping to find a solution short of replacing every vacuum hose to catch the one(s) that leaks or rebuilding the carbs. I had planned to remove the hose you refer to in your post, but now I'm not sure if it is the culprit.Any thoughts?Thank you.HoganJr

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toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #38 · Jun 3, 2013

6

more pics

Hello again! I also noticed a couple of vacuum hoses that were capped off with a screw or bolt. I'm attaching some pics of them. Can anyone tell me if they are supposed to be unconnected or if I need to find where they go?I also took a few longer shots of the carbs in case something stands out to you experts that may indicate why I have this problem.Any advice is greatly appreciated.The last pic just shows a shot under the carbs between intakes for 3 and 5 where someone has obviosly been in there and put a hose clamp on something. Maybe this is another clueThanks Again.HoganJr

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DriverRider

· #39 · Jun 3, 2013

Someone did the Amateur Hour on your bike. The yellow hose is for your shot air system which is now disabled, other capped vacuum hose goes to the auto fuel valve which is missing and rounded screw heads in air horn top indicates someone has been in there before and judging by the other shoddy work would also be screwed up.

exavid

· #40 · Jun 3, 2013

Yep, Mother Honda doesn't put in hoses and plug them with random fasteners. Your bike has been vandalized by a previous owner. I'm always amazed how many people will tackle something they don't understand.

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