GL1500 stall

9561 Views 78 Replies 18 Participants Last post by toolcraft4100, Jul 10, 2013

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · May 7, 2013

I just bought a used 1991 1500 with 93,000 miles. It seems to be in pretty good shape, but the PO has no service records and the bike needs some attention. The price was right, but I should have looked her over better and test-rode her longer.
Last night I was riding with a passenger (maybe 350lbs. total). Temps were in the high sixties and we got into some traffic. Sat and idled for several minutes at a time. Went maybe a mile idling at lights and creeping along. Several times the bike stalled or almost stalled when taking off from a stop. Seemed to idle ok and ran ok once we got moving. Started right up when I killed it, but I'm not sure what the stalling means. The temp guage needle was pointed straight up when we were in traffic and dropped back down when we got moving again.
Where should I start troubleshooting?

HoganJr

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DriverRider

· #41 · Jun 3, 2013

That is just what can be seen from above, it is probably equally bad under the carbs.

Plan of attack would be to pull carbs and check underneath for other problems. With carbs out go through them completely as we know it surges at idle and is caused by vacuum leaks or plugged carbs, with removal of pilot tamper proof caps. Reconnect everthing previously removed as originally installed testing components underneath where you used to have a mat, fire it up and diagnose more from there. Hopefully, testing of components under mat will not neccistate removal of carbs a second time. You will need a service manual and vacuum diagrams.

Different years had manifold vacuum lines on different intake runners and should be pinched off prior to pulling the carbs checking for downstream leaks one last time.

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #42 · Jun 3, 2013

DriverRider said:
That is just what can be seen from above, it is probably equally bad under the carbs.

Plan of attack would be to pull carbs and check underneath for other problems. With carbs out go through them completely as we know it surges at idle and is caused by vacuum leaks or plugged carbs, with removal of pilot tamper proof caps. Reconnect everthing previously removed as originally installed testing components underneath where you used to have a mat, fire it up and diagnose more from there. Hopefully, testing of components under mat will not neccistate removal of carbs a second time. You will need a service manual and vacuum diagrams.

Different years had manifold vacuum lines on different intake runners and should be pinched off prior to pulling the carbs checking for downstream leaks one last time.

Thanks alot for the plan-of-attack. I'm gonna get in touch with the party I bought this bike from and pursue returning the bike to him for a full refund. At the very least he owes me a fuel valve. I don't think the bike is safe and rideable without that.
If I still own the bike later this week I'll order a rebuild kit and start checking vacuum lines.

HoganJr

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #43 · Jun 4, 2013

update and more questions

I had a cordial conversation with the PO last night and told him I was very disappointed by his lack of disclosure on some issues that affect the value and driveability of the bike and that I'd prefer for him to reverse the deal. Did not get any real traction there, but I put it out there for him to hear and now I'm ready to own this thing.
I have a couple of questions, though, if you all will help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it.
1. Is there testing I need to do on the vacuum tubes before I remove the carbs, or is carb removal my next step? Most of the vacuum lines end up underneath or behind the carbs. It's difficult to see both ends of any of them.
2. Are auto fuel valves readily available on ebay? Should I buy a new one from a dealer? Can I find one used and rebuild it? Is there a popular "workaround" for the afv?
3. Does anyone know of a salvage yard within an hour or two of central Indiana where I could pick some GL1500 parts?
4. Do I need a 1991 Shop Manual to correctly track the components of the fuel systems or will the 1994 Manual that I have work?

Than You

HoganJr

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GreatWhiteNorth

· #44 · Jun 4, 2013

Sorry to hear you're stuck with it. I'm going thru a similar issue with my '91 SE - thread here: http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums...m/389977-gl1500-stranded-today-got-towed.html

I found Jim Martino's guide on carb removal/installation very useful: http://www.jmartino.me/carb/index.htm Yes, I think you should pull the carb and have a good look at all the vacuum lines... suggest returning it to stock condition. Although I've bought some parts off eBay, I have also bought new OEM replacement Honda parts too - many/most still available. I've been buying my parts from Cyclemax.

You really need a Clymer manual. I've got both a Clymer & Honda manual... interesting seeing the differences between them. A '94 manual will probably work for you (mine is for a '98!).

Good luck and keep us posted. Always good to see what works to keep 'em running.

Edit - BTW, Cyclemax is selling the auto fuel petcock rebuild kits again... just ordered one myself.

DriverRider

· #45 · Jun 4, 2013

The 94 manual should be close enough and if questions arise you can always get them answered here. It will sound a little more difficult then it actually is, all the solenoid valves and controllers for the vacuum system should have the hose #'s stamped or decaled on them and is just a process of putting Humpty-Dumpty back together. OEM hoses are colored coded also according to what system they belong to. Study the diagrams and get to know where each valve is located and what the proper name of it is. Pictures help alot here when asking for help as other members can compare what a correctly plumbed system should resemble. Forget about the fuel valve for now as that can be done anytime after it is running correctly.

In your pics I did not see any vacuum lines going to the bottom of the air box for the hot air door of intake? or are they just out of the way. What exactly is the engine doing again (backfiring, stalling, rough idle,popping thru carb, hard start, skipping, flat spots, etc.) to sum it up and do yourself a favor and DIAGNOSE what the engine is or is not doing prior to taking it apart. This gives you important clues as to what systems need to be zeroed in on for a successful repair. A vacuum pump and gauge will be essential here. Start with ign. system and then to carburation, some problems may be found and corrected before the real work starts such as the simple connecting of the yellow hose. A compression test of the engine might also be advisable if you can't get it to run decently during the diagnosing stage. During the diagnose stage you leave the air box off and vacuum lines to it plugged and if needed road test it around the block that way.

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums.../426066-1500-fuel-mixture-diagnosis-test.html

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exavid

· #46 · Jun 4, 2013

You can easily replace the vacuum petcock with a 12V fuel valve. Lots of them available inexpensively. Just wire it to a 12V source that's switched on with the ignition switch. Here's a link. All you'd need to do would be to screw in a couple of appropriately sized hose barbs in each end. Those you can get from most auto parts or hardware store.
http://www.dan-marc.com/rv-parts-12-volt-fuel-shut-off-valves.html

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #47 · Jun 4, 2013

thank you

Thanks for all the information and tips. I have a vacuum pump with guage and the '94 Shop Manual, that should be enough to get me started on hose testing and carb removal.
Actually, I plan to take DriverRider's advice and reconnect the plugged off vacuum hoses and test drive before I do any more teardown. I found another yellow hose right next to the first one that was plugged off. I have studied the sparsely labeled diagram of the shot air system in the manual and am having difficulty seeing where the hoses go and matching what I see on the bike to what I see in the book. Hopefully I can get these hoses reconnected, ride it, and record what I experience. Maybe a miracle will occur. Is it important to test drive with the airbox off and hoses plugged? It does not take much to reinstall it.
Barring a miracle I will order the Randakk rebuild kit.
Another question: I discovered the air pre-filter that filters the air supply to the carb-jet solenoids (I believe all that terminology is correct). The filter element was dry, brittle and had a hole in the middle. It turned to powder when I handled it. Could unfiltered air or particles of filter media contaminate the solenoids and effect the carb performance?
If I buy new bulk vacuum hose at the auto parts store are there key words I need to use to assure I get the right product?
Thanks to all for your help

HoganJr

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exavid

· #48 · Jun 5, 2013

Yeah, take a piece of the hose you have and tell 'em you want some vacuum hose that's this size.

DriverRider

· #49 · Jun 5, 2013

toolcraft4100 said:
I found another yellow hose right next to the first one that was plugged off. I have studied the sparsely labeled diagram of the shot air system in the manual and am having difficulty seeing where the hoses go and matching what I see on the bike to what I see in the book. Hopefully I can get these hoses reconnected, ride it, and record what I experience. Maybe a miracle will occur. Is it important to test drive with the airbox off and hoses plugged? It does not take much to reinstall it.
I discovered the air pre-filter that filters the air supply to the carb-jet solenoids (I believe all that terminology is correct). The filter element was dry, brittle and had a hole in the middle. It turned to powder when I handled it. Could unfiltered air or particles of filter media contaminate the solenoids and effect the carb performance?
If I buy new bulk vacuum hose at the auto parts store are there key words I need to use to assure I get the right product?HoganJr

AICV solenoid valve is on left tube above horn in front of fan, Decel compensation valve (Shot) is under left pocket area, Air injection control valve is between the intake manifolds under carbs, shot air valve is under carbs left front, shot air solenoid valve (neutral) with hoses #3 & 4 front of carbs under coils, air jet controllers under right pocket. AFAIK air jet controllers work on the slide circuits of carbs and should not affect idle. Yellow is decel compensation, green for air injection, carb and air jet controllers use white. The above from my 88, YMMV.

If you want to take the box on and off each time started or ridden you might as well put zippers on it,

you aint in a Okie dustbowl and for your testing purposes will not change the mixture or running quality to a hill of beans. Gear shift sensor affects operation of the above valves, did your neutral and OD lights work, if so you can give that a cursory pass for now.

Pic was from Tim IIRC regarding vac hose sizing.

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DriverRider

· #50 · Jun 5, 2013

From the manual for Shot Air System:

INTAKE MANIFOLD SHOT AIR (DECEL COMPENSATION) SYSTEM.

Due to the large 1500 cm3 engine displacement and the fact that the valve timing has a small intake/exhaust overlapping, the
compression braking effect during deceleration is strong.
The shot air system has been incorporated to moderate compression braking and improve riding comfort.
The shot air system supplies air to the intake manifolds during deceleration to prevent sudden induction of strong manifold
vacuum.
As illustrated, the intake manifold vacuum acts on the lower diaphragm chamber of the shot air valve through No.1 and No.2
tubes. When vacuum rises during deceleration, the diaphragm is pulled down to allow air from the air cleaner to enter the intake
manifolds.
To ensure a natural deceleration feeling when the engine is revved up and down with the transmission in neutral, the solenoid
valve (Neutral) opens the vacuum route to the upper chamber of the shot air valve when neutral is detected by the gearshift
sensor. Under these conditions, the shot air valve remains closed.
Engine rotation per minute is detected by the pulse generator and signals are transmitted to the carburetor control unit via the
ignition control unit. The solenoid valve 2 opens when engine speed is above 2,000 min-1 (rpm) to increase air supply. In addition
to air through No.7 tube, air flows through No.6 tube, solenoid valve, and No. 10 tube.
The one-way valve is provided in the three-way joint near the intake manifolds. The one-way valve prevents manifold
pressure interference.

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Dragon Slayer

· #51 · Jun 5, 2013

WOW... almost wish you lived a little closer to me.. Ide tell ya to bring it out and "side by side" compare to mine...

I hate dealing with vacuum problems...

Good Luck

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #52 · Jun 5, 2013

Dragon Slayer said:
WOW... almost wish you lived a little closer to me.. Ide tell ya to bring it out and "side by side" compare to mine...

I hate dealing with vacuum problems...

Good Luck

I'd like to find someone in this area who rides a 1500. My GL1000 has 5 vacuum hoses for a total length of less that a foot and a half.

HoganJr

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #53 · Jun 5, 2013

exavid said:
You can easily replace the vacuum petcock with a 12V fuel valve. Lots of them available inexpensively. Just wire it to a 12V source that's switched on with the ignition switch. Here's a link. All you'd need to do would be to screw in a couple of appropriately sized hose barbs in each end. Those you can get from most auto parts or hardware store.
http://www.dan-marc.com/rv-parts-12-volt-fuel-shut-off-valves.html

that's good information...gives me one less thing to be concerned about. Regarding the vacuum hose: I want to go home with exactly what I came looking for when I go the the auto parts store. And relying on the counter personell isn't alway a recipe for success.

HoganJr

DriverRider

· #54 · Jun 5, 2013

The pre OBD carb equipped vehicles in the beginning of the emission requirement era where a bear to work on with the miles of plumbing. But each sub system can only affect certain parameters of the running characteristics.

And the usual question it boils down to is it running rich or lean with a given problem, ignition problems aside.

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #55 · Jun 5, 2013

DriverRider, I copied and pasted your last couple of replies to a word doc so I can have it in my hand when I look into the bowels of this beast tonight.
My plan is to reconnect the shot system, then ride it until it's fully warmed up and write down all the issues that I encounter so I can systematically fix them.
Thank You

hoganJr

exavid

· #56 · Jun 5, 2013

The main purpose of the SHOT air system is to bypass the carbs when the throttles are shut so as to prevent the rider from going over the handlebars from sudden engine compression deceleration. With the throttles suddenly shut while the engine is turning fairly high revs the extremely high vacuum in the intake system would give some very impressive engine braking. The SHOT air system bypasses air around the throttles reducing the vacuum.

toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #57 · Jun 6, 2013

exavid said:
The main purpose of the SHOT air system is to bypass the carbs when the throttles are shut so as to prevent the rider from going over the handlebars from sudden engine compression deceleration. With the throttles suddenly shut while the engine is turning fairly high revs the extremely high vacuum in the intake system would give some very impressive engine braking. The SHOT air system bypasses air around the throttles reducing the vacuum.

exavid, thanks for the info. I discovered that one of the components of my Shot Air System is missing. The below pic, I believe, illustrates that my Shot Air Solenoid Valve is missing.
Could this be the cause of my stalling-on-takeoff issue?
Can I buy this part used or reconditioned?
Can you tell if I have identified this missing part correctly?

Thank You

hoganJr

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DriverRider

· #58 · Jun 6, 2013

Look under the left pocket.

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toolcraft4100

Discussion Starter · #59 · Jun 7, 2013

6

this is what I see

DriverRider said:
Look under the left pocket.

DriverRider and all, thanks for sticking with me. What so you make of all this?Is that solenoid in the left pictures attached to the green hoses the one that should be attached to the yellow hoses? It's kinda wedged in down there against the intake manifold. The white canister-shaped object-is that the Shot Air Valve?The last pic is under the right pocket. Everything seems intact over there, except that the little air filter was turned to dust.Thanks again,hoganJr

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DriverRider

· #60 · Jun 7, 2013

Apparently different years had components in different locations (great huh) When in doubt look at the component for the hose #. That valve looks like it should belong there and the valve you are looking for is indeed missing.

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