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I'm a pinch worried about a chatter I'm getting that I mentioned previously in another thread. I had a hunch it was clutch chatter....but now I'm not so sure. While I have the front maintenance all worked out I have yet to service the rear.

Starting with the drive shaft. I thought I saw a grease fitting somewhere.....and what type of grease to use? Do you guys usually take the shaft out and grease it when she has been neglected?

Then the final drive. I was hoping to inject the new fluid in. And again.....the best fluid to use? Mother Honda?

And finally the drive flange lubrication......I'm not sure how many "pins" I have on the final drive and weather or not I should be adding some molly paste in the area?

1993 1500SE

Thanks in advance friends,


RED
 

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Red , your 93 should have the 5 pin drive flange (no lube used on the 5 pins). As for a zerk fitting , I dont recall one on the 1500s . I use Moly 60 on the drive flange splines as well as each end of the drive shaft splines and trans output shaft .
 

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THEBIGRED1 wrote:
...Do you guys usually take the shaft out and grease it when she has been neglected? ...
> You must remove the rear wheel, then the final drive, then pull out the drive shaft.
> At that point, inspect the splines on both ends of the drive shaft (especially the rear), for abnormal wear. Clean the splines, to remove any grease.
> Inspect the Seal, at the rear end of the drive shaft, replacing if necessary.
> Inspect the Rubber Boot, at the front of the drive shaft, replacing if necessary (and upgrading to the Valkeree model)
> Re-assemble, using Honda Moly-D Grease (Only) on all splines.
> Do not torque the 4 bolts for the Final Drive, until after the wheel has been completely installed... The unit needs to temporarily "float", in order to properly align to the rear wheel.
> Repeat this procedure every 10-20k miles
 

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I would definitely do all the splines on the final drive/rear wheel. My boss had an '88 1500, and always had it serviced by a shop, including tire changes. The final drive unit stripped out under 60,000 miles. Nobody had ever serviced it. A VERY expensive repair.

There was a time when I thought shaft drives did not need maintenance other than changing the oil in them, and that is what made them so much better than a chain. Then I bought a Vulcan 750, and found out differently. The shaft drive on that thing requires a ridiculous amount of maintenance, not as often as a chain, but much more time consuming. I figure maintenance time between it and a chain drive are about the same overall. And if something breaks or wears out, parts are a LOT cheaper. I no longer have that warm fuzzy feeling for shaft drives that I used to.
 

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Take a look HERE for info on the 5/6 pin lubing issue. This comes from straight from Honda. And Honda Moly 60 is what should be used to grease the splines on the driven flange and all the splines on the drive shaft. Steve has a tutorial about removing the drive shaft HERE and that should help. As far as the gear oil in the rear end, I always just use the Honda Hypoid 80w gear oil.
 

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Don't forget to check the rubber dampers where the spider goes into the the back wheel, quite possibly the rubbers have passed useful life.
 

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I`ve been pulling the driveshaft out, and coating the splines with Honda 60 Moly paste immediately after buying a used Gold Wing. Then I forget about the drive splines for 100,000 miles. Change the rear drive oil with Hypoid gear oil once a year. Put a coating of the Honda 60 Moly on the drive flange splines when ever new tire is installed. Never have had a drive shaft failure yet. Only time I get nervous is when the mechanic says "I have a grease here just as good".

The rubber dampners in the rear wheel are nice to change out occasionally.... but last time I checked with Honda they were $20,00 each, and there are 5 to replace.
Tom Bishop
`98 S.E.
 

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gumbyred what are "the rubber dampners in the rear wheel". That is a new term to me.
 

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Ditto pwhoever ., follow the manual re, lubing rear end .
Use Moly 60 paste on rear drive high load open tooth splines only.
Be sure about lube or no lube for your drive pins , this seems to be an " issue " for 5 or 6 pin drives .?
In my personal opinion , i would not lube the drive pins at all as they are steel pins inserted into rubber grommets.
At best , i would use a shot of silicone only .
 

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The Rubber Dampners are Item#1 in the following figure (There are 5 or 6 of them, depending on model year). Note that they each contain an Aluminum Bushing, Item#2, which also wears... so you'd typically have to replace both the Dampner and Bushing.

Mine wore out around 100k miles... resulting in some driveline lash (slack) upon changes in throttle acceleration.


 

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THEBIGRED1 wrote:
I'm a pinch worried about a chatter...I thought I saw a grease fitting somewhere.....and what type of grease to use?...
> There are no grease fittings anywhere on the bike.
> Are you perhaps referring to the Bleed Nipple for the Hydraulic Clutch?... which is located on the left side, beneath the alternator?
 

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This is a much larger job then I thought....after reading Steve's pictorial. I do think I can handle it.....but right in the middle of riding season kind of sucks. Then it gets one thinking to replace the rear tire as well given all the work involved. I'm wondering if it can wait till the fall.......or if I'm in danger of causing serious damage. Perhaps I can just change the hypoid gear oil for now?

The chatter I have is very mild and intermittent. It seems to happen on deceleration. Anyone experience this chatter before?

I'm not sure how the vision of a grease fitting got in my brain......thanks for removing it. LOL

I think I now understand the 5/6 pin lubrication discussion. Both still need moly on the main gear? And if the rubber dampers are worn out would it be obvious? I've been having lots of fun on my wing......haven't driven my car in six weeks. I really hate to tear into the wing again this season if it can wait....but I can see how important this maintenance is. What are your thoughts on waiting till the fall for the maintenance friends?

Thank you all for your comments,

RED
 

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THEBIGRED1 wrote:
This is a much larger job then I thought....after reading Steve's pictorial. I do think I can handle it.....but right in the middle of riding season kind of sucks. Then it gets one thinking to replace the rear tire as well given all the work involved. I'm wondering if it can wait till the fall.......or if I'm in danger of causing serious damage. Perhaps I can just change the hypoid gear oil for now?

The chatter I have is very mild and intermittent. It seems to happen on deceleration. Anyone experience this chatter before?

I'm not sure how the vision of a grease fitting got in my brain......thanks for removing it. LOL

I think I now understand the 5/6 pin lubrication discussion. Both still need moly on the main gear? And if the rubber dampers are worn out would it be obvious? I've been having lots of fun on my wing......haven't driven my car in six weeks. I really hate to tear into the wing again this season if it can wait....but I can see how important this maintenance is. What are your thoughts on waiting till the fall for the maintenance friends?

Thank you all for your comments,

RED
> No, if the drive-line has not yet been serviced, then I would not ride the bike at all... It is a commonly abused item (in terms of bike shops and owners skipping it), for which I'd take the view that any bike is guilty-until-proven-innocent!
> Take the 6hrs (first time), and service the entire drive line... Not doing so may well leave you stranded.
> It's also an ideal time to replace the rear tire (if necessary) and service the rear brake (clean caliper; bleed line); and lube the swing arm bearings.

> The Chatter you're encountering is likely from either a worn spline (driveshaft or hub), or worn rubber dampners in the rear wheel. If it's the Dampners, then the Wear will be obvious when you view them... eg The internal aluminum bushings will have a sloppy fit into the dampners (and hence be the source of the Chatter, due to a slack connection between the driveline and the wheel).
 

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I hope I don't have drive spline wear. I really don't have the cash for that. Only one way to tell I guess. At least the maintenance should be cheep enough. I already have the moly. I'll have to keep the rear tire for now as she is still good and again I'm short on the bucks.

How do you grease the swing arm bearings?

RED
 

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THEBIGRED1 wrote:
,,,How do you grease the swing arm bearings? ,,,
Steps:
1) Remove rear wheel, final drive, drive shaft, and boot.
2) Remove the sheet metal cover, that sits atop the Collector.
3) Remove the bolts, that hold the rear brake line Mounts to the swing arm.
4) Remove both left and right bolts to swing arm (You'll need to buy or make a tool, to remove the lock nut on the left side)
5) Move the swing arm backwards, One Side At a Time (eg Pull to either the right of left side of the bike)... You can move it far enough back to just be able to access each of the swing arm bearings, one at a time; repeat for other side.
6) Remove the swing arm bearings (they will just fall out); clean; re-grease; re-install the bearings, and locate the swign arm back in it's normal position.
7) Install the right side swing arm bolt... torque per manual.
8) Install the left side swing arm bolt... torque per manual.
--Verify smooth up/down movement of the swing arm; and no abnormal side-to-side movement.
--Hint: As an alternative, simply torque until the swing arm's vertical movement get's Too Tight, then back off slightly, verifying smooth movement without side-to-side slop.
9) Install the lock nut on the left side... torque per manual.
10) Reinstall the Collector, and brake line mounts
Hint: Use a 1ft long socket extension, and lift up on the swing arm, to install the two mounting bolts for the collector... It's otherwise very difficult to manage these bolts.
 

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Thanks for taking the time to respond Alex. A recommendation for type of grease in the swing arm bearings?

Mmmm.....this job is getting larger by the moment. I had doubts that this very careful learning bike mechanic would get her done in the six hours mentioned before .......but now it will most likely take me a few days to do this important maintenance......and it will really help me to better understand the rear of my wing.

I spent some time looking at the dampers and pins for the rear wheel. Parts #1 and #2 came to 140.00 on the nose w/shipping. I wonder how commonly these parts fail and if I should wait till after inspection to buy them....or just plan on it. Price from cyclemax.

Also......if there is some "normal wear" on my splines.....do you think the added moly grease will improve my chatter problem or simply halt the wear? Obviously if the wear is too bad I will need to search for some parts on eBay. I guess I will need to post some photo's for advice when I'm in. My thinking is only to prevent waiting weeks for parts after inspection. And also the bucks are tight.

Thanks again,


RED
 

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"...A recommendation for type of grease in the swing arm bearings?"
> I use Bel Ray Waterproof Grease, but anything rated for wheel bearings would be fine... It's a low speed, high load application.

> Cheapest way is to buy a Used Wheel for perhaps $50 from a trike shop... it will include everything you need, and you get a spare rim too.
> The Pins do not wear out. What does wear is the Rubber Dampners and the Aluminum Blocks that are contained within them... These items wear out around 100k miles.

"if there is some "normal wear" on my splines.....do you think the added moly grease will improve my chatter problem or simply halt the wear?"
> It won't do anything for the chatter (which is probably caused by worn dampners).
> It will slow the wear
 

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Yea they call the aluminum inserts a "piece" ......that's what I meant to say actually. I will look into your suggestion. I do have some "lash".....although light in my drive train. My 1100 had a real big lash in her.....drove me nuts. Just curious......does the 11 have a similar set up back in '82? (I may want to email the fellow who bought it and give him a heads up)


RED
 

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Sorry for jumping in here but I have a related question.

I'm changing my rear tire and have everything apart to do the related maintenance. Drive shaft and splines all look like new (phew!) after 47K miles. But I'm having a bear of a time getting the drive shaft to re-engage in the u-joint. Any tips to make this easier? I've tried inserting a 1/8 inch bar to get the u-joint to sit up but it still won't seem to go in there. I've got the drive shaft separated from the final drive to give me more wiggle room. And I did remove the C clip so it can't be causing the problem.

Would it be easier to if I let the swingarm droop below what the shocks will allow?

Did a bit more searching in the archives and I may have found the answer:

Reinserting driveshaft into u-joint

But check out Post #8. Does that really work? Sounds kinda iffy to me. :?
 

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I raise the swing arm (to horizonal position) using a 3/4" plank of wood, between the arm and the top of the exhaust collector... That usually allows the drive shaft to drop right in, while twisting it to "clock"/align the splines.

If that does not work then use your hand, or a long screwdriver, from the front end to support the U-joint.

One way or the other, it should only take about 5 minutes.. otherwise something is mis-aligned.
 
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