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Ok...I have a new bike about 9 months old. GL1800 2010 model.



Ok now there is one cylinder, its not fully missing, however feels like its not putting out its full power like the rest. This only happenes when cold to about half way warmed up. Once fully warmed up I do not feel it any more. This can be felt at low speed in 2nd gear and when you put the gas on...you feel what I could only say as a thumping feeling....like a cylinder that is not fully firing.



Checked plugs...have changed plugs with 3 different sets...but still feel it when cold and not fully warmed up...when fully warmed up....if its there....I can not feel it.



To me it feels like a cylinder that is not getting enough gas....or if it is then the injector is not making it like a mist... Other things that can make a cylinder fire but be weak or delayed in the power....is a weak spark.



I have looked at all the plugs, and all look the same...but then it happens only for a short time from stone cold to half way warmed up....then smoothens out... I have no idea which cylinder it is.....but its clear by the feeling that one is not firing and giving the output like the rest.



Anyone got any ideas....? Anyone ever had this before...? As I said bike is NEW 9 months old now and has 23,000 Km's on it.
 

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Probably a sticking injector, and without diagnostic gear it is a guess as to which one is the problem. Try running injector cleaner through the tank and see if it helps. If not, take it to the dealer for a warranty check and repair.
 

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A valve with too little clearance can cause that. In an overhead cam engine the clearance gets tighter when the engine is cold and grows as it warms up. Take it to the dealer and get it checked out.
 

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I have tried running cleaner thought it and no change. See the problem is that it only does it when cold and stops as it warms up. By the time its half way warmed up I can no longer feel that one cylinders thumping. Within minutes of posting, another thought came to mind that it could be a sticking injector that is staying "open" longer and that thump I feel is "NOT" a cylinder lacking in power, but maybe its getting MORE gas then normal and the thump is that one cylinder pushing harder then the rest....maybe.....??????? In any case I really do not want to take it in to the dealer, I know what will happen. The guy there that is so young that I have pimples on my butt that are older then him will look at me and give me that....your do not have a clue what your talking about...old man look. Trust me been there, done that...have the T shirt as they would say. In the end I was right, but try and tell them...! They are full of themselves. The other reason I really do not want to take it to them is, I know they will half heartedly look at it...half hearted...if I am lucky...! And will find nothing and then hand me a bill for a few hundred bucks for nothing. I might as well just throw it out the window and let wind blow it away for the amount of good it will do me. My back ground is as a Millwright, I use to work on engines that would make a grey hound bus look like a childs toy when compaired size by side for size. If it would not be such a pain in the a$$ to get to the injectors in the first place, I would pull all of them out and do a full work up on all of them for spray pattern to flow rates and so on. Which I might still do just to that I can find and fix it...or remove that from the items that could be causing this. However as suggested that a valve thats going out of spec for clearance, this might not be a bad idea to check this in the mean time. However the first check is due at 32,000 Km's or is that miles....???? Will have to look that one up. In any case I have 23,000 Km's on the bike, and its almost all highway Km's. About 85% highway the rest city type riding. Oil used from day one...full synth Amsoil 10W40. Gas rarely regular...90+% of the time I use mid grade. Depends where I am as some grades out in the middle of nowhere...no mans land is harder to find.
 

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Then take it to a different dealer.. isn't it under warrenty? you are not stuck with one bad shop... (and they all are not bad)
 

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Yes its under full warrenty....bought it new just 9 months ago. Its a 2010. The other problem if you will is that there is two shop, both are one hour drive from me...after that, the next one of 4.5 hours away.
 

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My 2007 exhibits a similar quirk when the engine temperature is between cold and the normal operating range. I get no engine noise, just a "flatspot" that lasts a few minutes until the engine is fully warmed. This only happens when I start it cold, run it to operating temperature, then shut it off for 30 minutes to an hour. The first start of the day doesn't do it.

Personally, I don't worry about it.....I accept it as part of the bikes character. My 2002 did the same thing.

Even if you don't expect any satisfaction from your authorized dealer, you will have a paper trail should the problem get any worse.
 

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gled02 wrote:
My 2007 exhibits a similar quirk when the engine temperature is between cold and the normal operating range. I get no engine noise, just a "flatspot" that lasts a few minutes until the engine is fully warmed. This only happens when I start it cold, run it to operating temperature, then shut it off for 30 minutes to an hour. The first start of the day doesn't do it.

Personally, I don't worry about it.....I accept it as part of the bikes character. My 2002 did the same thing.

Even if you don't expect any satisfaction from your authorized dealer, you will have a paper trail should the problem get any worse.
YES....Thats its....like a flat spot. The very first time I felt it I freaked out...going OH god...the rear drive gear has a chipped tooth....or something like that. It does not last long only about 3 minutes or so when I start it when it has sat over night. Never feel it once its been started and run even after it cools its fine. I notice it more when my bike has been sitting for 2 days or longer.
Its not a big flat spot as you put it, but enough that I notice it. I guess I am just worried do not want to have something to go really wrong with it.
 

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I might however go out and buy one or two injectors for my GL1800 just so I have something to test. I want to know what the rate of flow in at the given PSI that the GW has. And do tests on the new injectors, as I have a very level of electronics back ground as well, and have a pile of electronics equipment, like variable power supplies where I can control voltage in 0.2 volt increments.

I want to see under pressure how many volts it takes to crack the injector open…and how long it will stay open as the voltage drops. There are many test I can run on new injectors to see what sort of, both electrical and mechanical properties it has. Then I once I have this data from two new never used injectors….I now have data to compare the used ones to and see how close those are to the new ones. Maybe find some specs as well on what sort so % tolerances there are in these…again to use as data towards what’s good and not.
 

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Try the ECM reset first, by disconnecting the battery for a minute. Start the engine and keep your hands off the throttle while the engine warms up. Resetting the ECM often cures running issues.
 

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I wouldn't go buying injectors Lloyd. Your Wing must be under warranty, why not let the dealer figure it out for you?
 

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Ok....here is the word on letting the dealer figure it out. I called them, told them the problem and so on and was told that if there is a problem with a injector that its covered. So I thought GREAT...! Then after that I got told, if however they work on it and can not repreduce the problem and they spend 3 hours on it, and if they can not find a problem. Then I am on the hook for the 3 hour labour charge...which by the way would be just over $300 and I would still have the problem to deal with. See the killer here is that it does not always do it, sometimes its almost not there, other times you can feel it more. So in the end it looks like I would be taking a $300 chance, and if they feel it...great...if not....then I am out the $300.

I think I will just do this myself at this rate...THANKS HONDA for your GREAT WARRENTY...!
 

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Lloyd wrote:
.THANKS HONDA for your GREAT WARRENTY...!
Honda's warranty is not the problem, they would cover the needed repair no problem. It is the dealer you are dealing with that is below par on customer service.
Do yourself a favor if you intend to fix it yourself. Check the valve clearance, it is pretty easy to check, harder to adjust but at least you would eliminate that at $0 cost. I deal with this regularly in Honda's newer V6s, valves out of spec and they will missfire when cold for just a minute or less. Took a while to figure that out.
 

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Ok...now what it miss fires...is that due to to big of a gap or too small...? Myself I like to run valves with a larger gap then is call for. Bigger is never really a problem, however small is..! Thats when you can burn a valve up is then its at or near ZERO clearance.
 

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On a side note I was intending to do all my valves, I know its not time yet. I have 23,000 on my bike and the first check is due at as I recall 32,000. If it would not be so bloody cold out in the garage...I would be out there doing just that. But this is something I do want to do and soon.
 

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Normally it is when they are too close, not necessarily close enough to burn a valve but enough that it will make the vacuum lower than normal and it doesn't take much. The clearance has more to do with duration than any thing else. As soon as the valve head get hot enough to expand and open up the clearance it is fine. I have learned to check the MAP sensor voltage to determine if the valve clearance is the problem and if it is OK then it usually is an ignition problem.
 

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When the engine is cold the ECU runs in open loop. It can't use O2 sensor inputs as there are none until the sensors get hot. If you have an injector that is not quite up to par the engine could do what you describe. When in open loop the ECU makes many assumptions. One is that all injectors are calibrated correctly. It also looks at other parameters such as engine temp etc. It's the old saying with computers. Garbage in , garbage out. One of the easiest ways to find a lean running cylinder is with a scope. If you see a spike followed by a second spike that is an indication that the mixture went lean before the spark was used up. If you Google lean scope patterns etc. I think you can find a wealth of info. The hand held scopes are very easy to use for this. Just check one against the next etc.

I just did a search and this is the first website I found. There were lots of hits but here is a start.

http://www.datec.us/downloads/analyzingfuel.pdf
 

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Thanks for the info, I will have to look into this soon, but first I am going to check all the valves to see if everything is alright there. Its times like this that I wish every cylinder had its own O2 sens on it. Then I could look at the mix on each one and really see whats going on.

Lloyd
 

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I also did a little test this morning. I started the bike when it was cold, let it run for about 30 seconds...put it in gear and stepped on the brake hard so it would not move. Then I started to let the clutch out some to load the engine without touching the gas. Being it was cold it was at about 2,000 RPM's, with the clutch let out enough to put load on the engine, I brought the RPM's down to 900 to 1,000 and what did I get...? Thump...thump...thump...! Each time that cylinder fired I could now really feel the thumping of that one cylinder not pulling its load...or putting out more power "if the injector is leaking" making the mix even more rich then the others. The thumping got very light just before the engine hit full running temp. Once it fully warmed up and the fan came on I tried the same load test...now no sign of thumping that I could pick up on. All I know is this. I chart my gas mileage very carefully so that I know just what I get....see I am long haul rider, doing 700 to 1,000 miles worth of riding in one day is what I am use to...and have done it often. And I have to be very...and I do mean...VERY gentle with the gas if I want to get 41 to 42 or so MPG out of this bike. I hear many say they get 45 on the average...I have YET to get that..! Never mind average...!!! The norm for me seems to be 37 to 38 as a average and even that is riding gentle. If I start cranking on it...more like 30 MPG area.

I have tried the injector cleaners...no luck there.
 
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