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How's everybody with GM (Metro) alternator doing with alternator life? Mine seems to be doing ok, but seems to run pretty hot. I'm running almost twice engine speed, and I've had it up to 8k, bout 15k on alt.Can't imagine how hot it'd get on a 100 degree day.Doesn't quite keep up charge at 800 rpm, on a LTD.Mine's the 50 amp Denso.Let me know. Bob
 

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Hi Bob,

You're justup theroad from me. I'm in Ashland.

I haven't tried an auto alternatoron a goldwing, but would be curious to see yours sometime.
 

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2 inch alt, 3 3/4 crank. Running v type, to allow the alt. to be a little further ahead. Really tight cause of injection, and throttle sensor. Keeping the crank pully centered was tricky, without paying a machinist to do something fancy, which I may do yet. The crank pulley is off some air inj. pump, if I remember right. I bought about 10 various pulleys at yard. I should have done a better job of documenting the job. I removed the orig. stator, and rotor. Sure revs up quicker than it did. And my mileage went up at least 1. Pretty pleased so far, but I have no room for the left fresh air vent, and I haven't resolved the left heat shield yet. Gonna have to butcher it somehow. So the radiator is blasting right at the left intake, and my left leg, ultimately. If I remember, I have a 33" belt. Bob :)
 

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or was it a 32.5" belt
 

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I'm surprised you had stator problems with a LTD. I'd always heard that the LTD and SEI were pretty immune from that problem.
 

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NOT !!!!! Bigger stator, more heat, more accessories added. Plug fix sure didn't help mine. It was absolutely cooked!. 76k miles I found a replacement. But for 200.00, and knowing it's always "pumping", I decided the ext is the only way to go. I run my Chev pickup this morn,bout 20 mins, and lo and behold, the alt was quite warm, almost hot, so maybe I'm borrowing trouble, worring about the alt on wing. Hope this helps. Bob
 

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I did the whole job for bout 70.00
 

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Oregonwinger wrote:
NOT !!!!! Bigger stator, more heat, more accessories added. Plug fix sure didn't help mine. It was absolutely cooked!.
Yep, more goodies, more heat. Alternator stator will run just as hot as the original stator, its a matter of load, not the stator. Now imagine that heat inside the engine case and youll see why they fry. Ive lost skin touching an auto alternator stator winding (250F?)
 

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Hi, Dave. I pulled the alt the other day, right after riding, about 65 degree day,to chk heat shield situation. I was fairly amazed at how hot it was. Grabbed it pulled it out of hole, and promptly set it down on a rag. I shoulda grabbed my thermal gun, and read it, but didn't think of it. I think it'll make it. I was hoping to go to Nebraska, Oklahoma soon, and thinking I oughta carry a spare.Will have to modify it a lot, too, to fit. Can't just go to local auto parts, and get another one, unless I carry a hacksaw, grinder, etc. LOL :D Course, could always swap the internal parts, after buying outright. Thanks, Bob
 

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Oregonwinger wrote:
How's everybody with GM (Metro) alternator doing with alternator life? Mine seems to be doing ok, but seems to run pretty hot. I'm running almost twice engine speed, and I've had it up to 8k, bout 15k on alt.Can't imagine how hot it'd get on a 100 degree day.Doesn't quite keep up charge at 800 rpm, on a LTD.Mine's the 50 amp Denso.
Bob, on that 800 RPM idle low charge output.. You MIGHT be able to help that a little if your particular Denso alternator has an S (sensing) terminal on it.. Usually, if that S terminal is hooked to the main wire harness junction area that feeds the lights & accessories it will improve the low RPM charging rate somewhat.. Most stock Denso's output pretty good at 2000 RPM so should be somewhat decent at around 1300-1400 alternator RPM's if regulated correctly & cansense the current needed from the usage area (probably at least 10-15 amps or more)..



On the heat condition? That is a function of-- output amps (squared) times ohms.. That will give you watts in heat.. Because of that amps squared thing just a little increase in stator output doubles the heat output..

Make sure your alternator has a GOOD FREE FLOWING air intake area & the alternator fan has plenty of clearance to move the air away.. If your radiator cooling fan is blowing heat on the alternator try to make an air shield & duct fresh air in from outside the radiator area..

Maybe get that lower fairing to fit & get the air vents to pull the hot air from the alternator area.. I use a heat gun to heat the original lower fairing then quickly force it over the installed alternator to mold the plastic to the alternator contour..

Alternator heat has become such a problem on some of the new automobiles that some are now being water cooled from the radiator water & cooling system..



Denso does make a high RPM small bodied alternator for racing applications but to get the high RPM ability low RPM output is sacrificed so that would be even worse for your low idle out situation..



You might buy some heat measuring tape or heat crayons & apply to your alternator case.. That will allow your check & verify your actual alternator operating temperature,, maybe it isn’t actually running as hot as it seems..



I have done a couple of Wing external alternator conversions for friends but have my own Wings still running the stock stator with direct (no connectors) wiring from the stator to the VR..



JDC

 

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Great post, JDC. That's exactly what I did with the heat gun. The alternator is inside, snug as a bug in a rug, but minus the fresh air tube, and the l. heat shield. At speed, the Left fresh air intake does feed the alt, also. Will work on the blocking rad. output. What size pulleys did you use? I don't know why I didn't think of the tape idea. We use them on Cat stuff all the time. I've seen some of those oil cooled alternators on trucks, but haven't seen a water cooled one. That small Powermaster was the route I was thinking about, but came to the same conclusion. Too lowoutputat low rpm, and too expensive! As for the "s" tip. I'll look into it. Thanks again, Bob
 

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Oregonwinger, I found similar problems with the regular Denso 50 amp. alternator onmy 84 Wing, but, got around it by using a 1 to 1 ratio to drive the alternator and coming up with an alternator that charges decentlyat 800 RPM. The alternator, unfortunately, is considerably more expensive than the regular Denso 50 amp, but, it charges at low RPM and since it's driven 1 to 1 it doesn't over rev at higher engine RPM's.

Max speed for the Denso alternator is 10,500 RPM so if you shift like I do at 7500 RPM you will be overspeeding the alternator by approximately 2500 RPM. That's why I needed to come up with the special alternator that would not need high RPM to output at idle. Now I can idle all day with the lights and stereo on and not worry about discharging my battery and when I finally get the fuel injection and turbocharger installed and working I'll be able to spin the engine to very high RPM's without any worries (well except for pistons and rods flying out, that is.LOL)

Vic
 

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What alternator did you come up with, Vic ?
 

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Oregonwinger wrote:
Great post, JDC. That's exactly what I did with the heat gun. The alternator is inside, snug as a bug in a rug, but minus the fresh air tube, and the l. heat shield. At speed, the Left fresh air intake does feed the alt, also. Will work on the blocking rad. output. What size pulleys did you use? I don't know why I didn't think of the tape idea. We use them on Cat stuff all the time. I've seen some of those oil cooled alternators on trucks, but haven't seen a water cooled one. That small Powermaster was the route I was thinking about, but came to the same conclusion. Too lowoutputat low rpm, and too expensive! As for the "s" tip. I'll look into it.



Bob, on the first conversion I used an (approximately) 65mm pulley on the alternator & somewhere around the same size on the crankshaft.. Sorry I didn’t really measure the crankshaft pulley as I used a pulley I had in my acquired “will use someday pile of parts”.. Basically close to a one to one ratio.. I was really worried about over speeding that little Denso alternator so didn’t try to overdrive it any..


I wasn’t really very familiar with that 50 amp Denso & based on my long running Delco 10-si & 12-si experience 8000-9000 RPM seemed like a safe limit..


I didn’t do the second conversion until the first had run for a while so I could watch for any inherent problems.. The guy I did the conversion for doesn’t ride very much so the data was slow coming in.. What did show up was a basic lack of charge at idle so I raised the engine idle a little & installed a relay (& switch at the throttle shaft) in the headlight system to shut off the headlight in neutral with the throttle at idle.. So far the battery at least stays up & the guy only rides short trips.


I was never really happy with the way the crankshaft pulley was attached on the first installation (we check it often) so on the second conversion I made a custom pulley on my lathe to fit better & also added 3 drive pins to key the pulley to the crankshaft.. Again I used a close to 65mm alternator pulley & went to around 85mm on the crank pulley. That seems to allow a charge at idle but worries me on the high end RPM range (so far no problems but again the guy is not an aggressive rider)..

I’m waiting for Vic to answer you on what he used as that would sure be a viable answer to the idle charge VS high RPM durability issue..

That is one reason I am still using the original internal stator on mine.. I am a very aggressive rider & regularly & routinely run my engine to the redline on the shifts.. I would be afraid to overdrive that little Denso very much for fear of trashing the rotor.. A one to one & still get a charge at idle would be perfect..

I read your original post with much interest & am waiting to see how yours works out long term as you are using quite an overdrive ratio.

JDC
 

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JDC. What would a Metro engine rev uo to, typically 4500 -- 5000. I'm thinking. As I remember the pully on it's crank is at least 5", the orig pully on my takeoff alt., was about 1.75 to 2.00 My 350 Chev is about that same ratio, or more. I'll have to do a rpm test with my strobe tach. Might be interesting. The 350 crank pully is probably 7" or more, without going out and raising the hood. I'm close to 1-2, and I've had it to 8k. No explosion, (so far) You ever see a cd rom explode? Pretty nerve wracking. These new drives can sure rev up! Bob
 

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I have had a bunch of the metros but not with a tach. They are 3 cyl and rev up pretty high... They have a large crank pulley. I wouldnt think they could over rev. My 99 has the original battery so the alternator does pretty good for me. And it does get hot . I could measure it if anyone wanted the info.

Bill
 

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Yes, most vehicles have quite a ratio spread from crank to alt.
 

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Oregonwinger wrote:
Found this on E-Bay. Was 2, I bought one. Hurry for the other one! Single lower ear, looks like

Oregonwinger, I believe that is the same (at least close to anyhow) alternator I first looked into.. I see he claims the regulator "kicks in" at around 900 RPM's.. That could be true but if it is like the one I looked at it really doesn't begin any meaningful charging until around 1600-1900 RPM's.. With your overdrive ratio you could be OK with a 1600 initialcharging RPM..

See Link- http://www.performancedistributors.com/alternator.htm

If it is the same unit I looked at you did get a decent price on it..

When I first looked into a small Denso racing alternator it sounded pretty good as those usually have premium ball bearings in them to allow sustained higher RPM's but I just couldn't find one that started charging early enough..

When you get that alternator & get it installed please post back & let us know how it works out as far as low RPM charging & fit in the M/C..



JDC
 
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