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Hi! got the bike back together again, was hard to start now wont fire at all. Checked carbys getting gas, checked sparkplugs very weak spark at plugs at cranking speed. Manual says there should be a big fat bluespark, no big fat blue spark here.Any one any idea. :?:clapper::clapper::clapper:
 

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The spark won't usually be as fat as you might expect, it should start on a modest spark. Often if the battery isn't up to full capacity the 1500 won't start.
 

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I have cleaned out the carbs, due to running rich. Bike was running after clean out has now refused to run. Checked the carbs there is fuel going in when I open the throttle I can see fuel jetting from the jets. Checked spark in the dark can hardley be seen.
 

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GWnorman is 100% right.

If the Battery is not at 100% the 1500 will have a hard time to start.

I always see mine act that way if the Battery is not 100%.

That's when the bike will fire when you let off the starter button.

If the Battery is great the bike will start so fast you don't have time to get off the button.

And if the Battery is not up all the way the damn thing won't start no matter what.

I never seen another vehicle like that.

Try charging your battery and try it then.

I keep a trickle charger on mine for the winter months and plug it in every other week or so.

Let us know what you find.

Good Luck

Mohawk
 

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Yes, I agree. If your battery is still a little weak from age, jump start with cables.
 

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Hi! folks thank you for the advice, the battery is about 5 months old, have tried jumping with a car battery, spark still weak. today bought new spark plugs not getting any spark at all from them. Could it be the coils or a bad connection?
 

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WellI have to admit you were right, put the new plugs in Fully charged the battery and she fired up first hit. Could it be that the old plugs which were heavily sooted shorting out via the soot? Will get her back together tomorrow and see how she runs . Idles real smooth no popping in the exhaust whenI back off the throttle.Thanks guys you deserve a medal as big as a frying pan.
 

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ulster wrote:
.....Fully charged the battery and she fired up first hit. Could it be that the old plugs which were heavily sooted shorting out via the soot?
Thats it . The plugs were shorting across the carbon build up . Full charge on the battery helps a lot too .
 

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It sounds like the 1500 would benefit from an equalizing charge on the battery every so often. Lead acid battery technology can be improved by sulphates being remixed into the electrolyte as a solution and thereby increasing the battery back to its nominal AH. Over time the 20 AH battery becomes somewhat less than 20 AH, and delivers less amps.

Constant trickle charging will do similar things to a battery so every once in a while a controlled over-charging will stir up the liquid conductor (electrolyte). The word is controlled, so when you overcharge to equalize control the time.

I do all my batteries and lifespan is about 8-10 years, car bike and truck. But if money is no problem buy a new battery and send me your old one.

Overcharge for 2 minutes, let cool and read voltage at each cell and/or dip a specific gravity float into each wet cell and read the S.G. 1.25 - 1.3. Keep the cells as high as possible to keep the cell charged and clean of depleted electrolyte crap, that is an insulator instead of a conductor.
 

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Plugs that are fouled with carbon, stop working because carbon, a neutral product becomes a semi conductor when voltage is applied.

Pull them and wash them with varsol, then brake cleaner. Wire brush them and dry. Check for black soot, take off the tan residue, make sure they are clean, dry.

Take a magnifying glass and inspect; edges sharp not worn, porcelain clean, no chips, if clean re-gap and re use, if chipped, worn or not clean file 13

Remember a spark, jumps a gap, when leaving or arriving from one electrode to another the spark removes minute amounts of material. A sharp edge is great for a sharp spark, but a rounded edge gives the spark a bigger area and flattens the spark's shape.

A narrow, sharp spark, is better than a wider dull spark...more intensity in the narrowed body. A sharp surface is better than a rounded surface when heat from a spark is intended to cause continued combustion and the sharpness aids in extinguishing the spark when added voltage is stopped.
 

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ARKnapp, I like your info provided hereand on your other posts.

This will be my last lead acid battery I use for my goldwing since I want to explore the AGM Odyssey.

What voltage should be used for equalization or what is the voltage output for a "quick charge" charger?

What would be the difference bein using a trickle charger at say 14 volts, when the typical alternator puts out similar voltage. I can see abatterystirring and bubbling, but a"forced over charge" or higher voltage is necessary, right?

Carbon fouling and "carbon tracking" on the spark plugs basically shorts the gap across the porcelain. Also, I have fuel wet fouled the plugs plenty of times. Even after drying they still are fouled. A fuel fouled plug may look clean but a similar tracking across the gapmust be occurring.
 

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ARKnapp, I like your info provided hereand on your other posts.

This will be my last lead acid battery I use for my goldwing since I want to explore the AGM Odyssey.

What voltage should be used for equalization or what is the voltage output for a "quick charge" charger?

What would be the difference bein using a trickle charger at say 14 volts, when the typical alternator puts out similar voltage. I can see abatterystirring and bubbling, but a"forced over charge" or higher voltage is necessary, right?

Carbon fouling and "carbon tracking" on the spark plugs basically shorts the gap across the porcelain. Also, I have fuel wet fouled the plugs plenty of times. Even after drying they still are fouled. A fuel fouled plug may look clean but a similar tracking across the gapmust be occurring.

A glass mat makes sense for a bike, but people in general often will not pay the price, many look for cheaper price without knowing that which they buy. If a company makes a bigger battery, safer battery, stronger battery and it still fits the bike that is the way to go.

If the battery is sealed how to get rid of the sealed in explosive hydrogen, one way valves, and lower input amps...compromises all, but if dealt with properly they work.

Equalizing is an old trick used in battery technology in the Solar PV industry and when used for auto style batteries works well. First take your battery and fully charge it. The charger may have a light that comes on to say "charged" This should put the terminal voltage around 14 7 VDC.

Any multi rate charger will do, as an example I use a single charger that puts out 2, 10 & 50 A at the full charging14.7 V DC. It also has a 6 Volt charging rate and is 10" x 8" x 6" cubed, it includes a scale of amps , non shorting circuitry and cannot be used as a supply voltage, it needs a battery tied to it to deliver its power.

After doing rotine charging with the battery as fully charged as the charger can muster, take the controls to the highest setting 14.7 VDC, 50 A (starting assist) nameplated and time the length of the over charge. I do 2 minutes now for my batteries, but it is experimental, since a battery worn low by nominal charging becomes lazy since its electrolyte will be diminished by the amounts of non conductive material in the electrolyte. The sulphated material from H2SO4 looses the O2 and H2SO3 becomes a pasty solid in a wet liquid that is still part of the electrolyte but is non conductive.

So over time the standard wet acid battery of 20 AH, becommes a smaller and smaller battery delivering less and less current each time its used. Not noticeable in the early part of summer, but as demand grows for power and the battery grows smaller in capacity, eventually they meet when...no power or not enough power.

And the battery is realy a storage tank. When you can't store as much as you used to you store less...but you need more...you have less...you ask for more and finally it gives what it has...nothing.

The forced excessive amps with the correct voltage, places - ions, electrons in the electrolyte, the bubbling causes mixing, the churning heat electrons and bubbles cause the mixture to blend, the added electrons seek their place and with added electrons 0 and 02 join to make 04 from 03. The lead gives up the crap attached to the sponge plates and current flow within the soup is allowed.

Now the soupy electrolyte becomes more ionized, a greater positve and negative destinction between lead, acic, and conductor, not to mention the throwing off of lead particles to the bottom of the soup...a greater wet cell able to deliver whatever excess electrons it has in conjunction with the other cells.

And if each cell is at optimum, you will get maximum discharge of electrons when needed.

A trickle charger is great since it delivers 1 or 2 amps trickling in, placing a small number of electrons in and around the cells. But the actual delivering of fewer negative ions over time will make the battery lazy, because there is the affect all is comfortable and the action of fewer O cells can leave. H2SO4 can still become H2SO3 but since it is done with minimum current flow, it takes longer time.

It does good to stir the pot when it comes to wet lead acid batteries, because over time the electrolyte get particulate in it form electrons moving. Each time a battery is charged and discharged it sparks and sparking eats up a bit of the lead metal, and this diminished metal goes to the bottom. A cheap battery has less space at the botton an expensive battery has greater space. There are many differences.

Plugs are similar but they work in a different environment. High heat high pressure and a trace of hydrocarbon can play havoc with voltage. Carbon is a stable element with a balanced valence ring. The addition of volitiles with excessive electrons will cause current flow. The cleaning of spark plugs is demanding of time and material,and when done badly is a waste of time. Most of us know this and will replace plugs before we clean them, but cleaning them tells a story, it tells us the conditions of our motors if we read them correctly.
 

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OK, I really do not see the advantage if equalization is14.7v. Don't most alternators deliverthat level of voltageor close to it. If so, would not a battery be in a constant state or charge or equalization just from normal driving.

6 cell at 2.1 volts would be around 12.6 volts. Alternator and chargers puts out a constant higher voltage. The cheaper chargers are not automatic and can overcharge and boil a battery. As a battery approaches a full charge the potential is say equal between the battery and alternator so would not the be no power draw or very low in amps?

Example: what would 14.7 (50 amps) charger do for a battery vs say connecting two 12 volt batteries in parallel? 50 amp would only be available. I thought the quick start voltagewas higher, but maybe not.
 

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OK, I really do not see the advantage if equalization is14.7v. Don't most alternators deliverthat level of voltageor close to it. If so, would not a battery be in a constant state or charge or equalization just from normal driving.

6 cell at 2.1 volts would be around 12.6 volts. Alternator and chargers puts out a constant higher voltage. The cheaper chargers are not automatic and can overcharge and boil a battery. As a battery approaches a full charge the potential is say equal between the battery and alternator so would not the be no power draw or very low in amps?

Example: what would 14.7 (50 amps) charger do for a battery vs say connecting two 12 volt batteries in parallel? 50 amp would only be available. I thought the quick start voltagewas higher, but maybe not.
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Voltage delivered is dependant on the voltage of the battery and the present state of chare for the battery voltage to deliver amps. Al this is equal to the state of charge or the electrons available to do work. The battery can have a 12.5 v reading and still not deliver any significant amps. The reson the battery shines the head kight but won't start the engine, a mmatter of amps in reserve. Equilization is not done as a gentle flow of amps but deilers the amps in a burst to a rating the charger can deliver; an alternator is a gentle type of deivery, at dle it barely has enough potential to tricke charge becuase of low RPM. The alternator on our bikes is a 3 oase AC generator and before the battery sees any input the output of the alternator mist be smoothed out, noy only in voltage but current to. Voltage dropped and AC at random frequecies smoothed out to pulsating waves of DC. Too gentle to be equilized. The eqilization is tryiing to equal out the individual cells, in vltage, cuased by interruptions in current flow. Both current and voltage are important, without one the other is useless. Also the equilization chages the electrolyte. By robustly shoving in more electrons, the liquid conductor becomes saturated and along with the cemicals available causes a more fuid electrolyte. The alternator by design delivers amps and voltage at a greater speed, charge the bike at the greater speed eqilization begis, but the reg and safety devises stop eqilization and only happens at arorund full reg voltage. Over charging in a controlled method saves destroying the batteryfrom excess, electrons, heat, gasing. In a M/C battery which is an auto style battery and not a deep cycle battery eqilization must be done in moderation.

On the other hand equilization in a deep cycle is not harmful as in auto battery because deep cycle are bigger, bigger solid plates, greater amounts of liquid conductor and bigger ampacity and bigger conections. Equilization is a normal maintenance procedure for deep cycle, I simply take this methodology and adapt it to auto batteries. It is unlikeky you will find the charger that equilizes auto batteriies, but take any muti tap charger and cinstead of using it as designed use it to equilize.

Warning...the amount of equalization is dependant on the SOC of the battery and its condition. But once cleaned up and properly maintained and examined the life span can be tripled

Normal driving delivers normal amps and voltage, the battery is maintained close to full charge. This proximity to full charge is similar to a trickle charger. The battery soons goes into a normal state since the SOC is maintained around 70-100%. This is the same method for Hybrid batteries. But to the most out of a battery get it out of the normal range, exercise it to hold more and deliver as promsed. Once a battery is equal to the charger's charge no charging takes place, that is why the charging voltage has to be higher and that is why equilization should take place as close to float voltage as possible because if incoming voltage is too great the battery will blow. Ever put a 120 light bulb across 240 volts, it works for a split second, burns out and if conditions are right explodes.

Batteries hooked in parallel simply become equilzed so the stronger battery weakens to the lower battery and over time both are equal...dependant on electrolye, SOC and condition. R3emember that batteries are storage tanks, they deliver only what is available. Eqilization makes the whole battery available as if it were new. If one battery is close to dead and the other is fuly charged putting them in parralel is dangerous, because the dead one creates a load for the good one and batteries deliver what is asked of them until they themselves self destuct. Devices to limit current, reverse current need to be used to keep infinite current draws to usable levels.

Quick starter voltage should never be higher than float voltage for the system. At 12 v DC nominal the charging rate can be about 15 V. The cells require 1.8 volts up to 2.5 or when in series connection 15 VDC, any higher then heat build up will warp the plates or destroy mechanical integrity. A blown battery is loud and dangerous, along with splashing acid. That is why you should wear old clothes and cover up totally, no sparks and use a face mask.

This started as a way to improve 12 v battery on 1500's, but equilization can extend any wet acid battery. As an aside, I remove my 1100's battery and store it in the basemnet off concrete, wash it reomve the caps, verify electrolyte, put plus in and trickle charge it 1x amonth. When its time to put into service I check it electrically and chemically, then spring time as in mid summer 2x a year I equiliize it, verify readings and put on the bke. The battery was given to me by my HD neighbour saying it was dead. When I got it, it was dead, that was 2 seasons ago. How long it will last is unknown because I really do not know how old it is but it was on a police bike of 1990, my friend surrendered it after 3 years.
 

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Thanks for the article about batteries. Simply put 1000,1100,1200,1500 bikes are undersized electrically. As owners we are energy hogs. The battery on the bike is in a progressive dieing stage, this under charge causes the battery chemistry to create insulation problems within the electrolyte.

Tenders and trickle chargers have a tendency to exacerbate the problems since prime voltage rates are not really adjusted to conditions good for the many stages of charge that occur in a battery so over time the battery gives up all it has.

The alternators on these bikes are minimal in size, so full charge is always wanting and time is the enemy. With small charging rates longer times are needed, not to mention over use of lights and devices that are a constant drain.
 

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Benign neglect followed with a conscientious effort to prolong a battery is good. The neglect allows the battery to do its thing, the effort allows restorative care, but since each is not routine the battery can not get too lazy and comfortable. A good kick in the pants is often a jolt that we all need periodically.:cooldevil:
 

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Just a quick note that I have used MANY times in automotive repairs...for fouled plugs, you can take a butane torch, oxy-acetelyne torch, or a propane torch and actually BURN the raw fuel out of the plug's insulator. This process also burns off the residual carbon that can short the plug out. I've done it many times. The trick(s) are as follows: 1. Don't heat the center electrode or ground electrode to the point where you MELT them...just heat it enough to start the center insulator to glowing red. You will usually see a flame out of where it burns the raw gas that has soaked into the ceramic and into the carbon deposits inside the body of the plug. 2. DO NOT attempt to pick the plugs up by hand for several minutes! They get VERY VERY hot!!! (I learned both of these lessons the hard way!...forgot that I had just burned them off and picked up two plugs by the other end, and promptly dropped them (breaking one)!
 
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