[jobe05]

imported post

Ok Guys and Gales, the old man is st.... st..... stu.... Stumped!!!

You thought I was going to say stupid...... You'd still be right...

3 Yellow wires:

I cut our the connector near the battery and soldered on 3 new, heavier wires. After I got all done, it started fine and I was able to run my 55w fog lights at idle and still get 13.1 volts on the dash meter, thats a first. Normally I can't run them very long at 3350 RPMs let alone idle. So there was a problem.

But then I got thinking about those other connections..... and found 2 up near the voltage regulator. 2 yellow wires go into and come out of one connector (with a bunch of other wires, and one wire goes into and comes out of another connector (with a bunch of wires).

Question: Where do I cut the wires and connect the wires from the stator to eliminate all connectors.

Heres what I have:

OK....... Then I have what appears to be 2 dog gone..... I mean Dog Bones Fuses. Which one do I replace with an inline 30 amp? If it;s just the top one in the pic, that easy. But how would I do the other one? It appears to be part of the solenoid?

Pic:

 

[rayworx]

imported post

Ok… first the yellow wires. Looking at the top picture you have 3 connectors that have yellow wire(s). I know for a fact that the smaller connector with the 2 yellow wires goes to your stator. I'm pretty sure that the larger connector with the yellow, green, red and black wires is the 3rd stator wire.
What you should do is to disconnect all 3 connectors. Use your ohm meter to trace all 4 wires to the 3 that come off the stator. Then cut out the 3 yellow wires and solder them. Obviously you don't cut the 4th wire that doesn't go to the stator. Only 3 wires should trace back through the wiring harness directly to the stator assembly. The connector with the 2 yellow wires is VERY PRONE TO CORROSION. Check it out.

The fuses….. go to a WalMart and get 2 spade fuse kits. You'll have to supply fuses because they don't come with the kit. You'll need to get some crush connectors to fit on the new fuse wires to fit on the screws on the black fuse base. Remove the dog bone fuses and connect one wire to each fuse screw.

 

[jobe05]

imported post

Thanks rayworx. You are correct on the yellow wires, the third wire is in the bigger connector. I'm now clear on that.

Dog Bone: So I won't cut any wires? I leave the Blocks in and just use the screws? That sounds too easy..... But I like it.

Are both Dog Bones 30 amps?

 

[Ken Bergen]

imported post

Not to disagree with rayworx OK I guess I am.

Pull the connectors on the regulator and if you see no corrosion then reconnect them and the job is done.:blackstuff: After all the connections carried the load for 26 years and if there is no corrosion they should do so for another 26 years.

 

[jobe05]

imported post

That was my first thought Ken, and all the upper connections look fine...... However the bottom one did to just 400 miles ago.

The bike only had 8500 miles on it when I got it, almost 11,000 now. Thats not a lot of miles, but I was surprised at how fast the bottom connector started burning, and just recently. I have kept an eye on it ever few hundred miles to see if it was going to be an issue.

I may let the other go for now since I see no signs of anything happening there, no discoloration or anything..

And I wouldn't say you disagreed with him, you merely offered another solution to the same problem.

 

[Ken Bergen]

imported post

It is my conviction that the stator plug problem is not poor connections but battery venting problems. Every picture of a toasted plug I've seen comes with evidence of acid corrosion in the plug area.:shock:

 

[hunter27h]

imported post

The dogbone fuse at the starter relay, I replaced by replacing the starter relay completely with the new type, but then my bikes had 45,000 miles on them, your picture still looks very clean.:waving:and you may be right Ken, hadn't given the battery a thought.



one of my 2 bikes, I had to cut out the stator wire at the regulator plug, because it was melted as well, just cut both sides, soldered. Yours looks good, I would leave it, as I did on one of my bikes



Ben

 

[tricky]

imported post

I dont think battery acid got this one

 

[hunter27h]

imported post

tricky wrote:

I dont think battery acid got this one

That's a picture of the one that I had...:cheesygrin:



Ben

 

[jobe05]

imported post

I don't know Kens background but I suspect he has worked on these for a couple of days..... in his past.....

When I first checked the connection there was some grease on it (electrical of course) but there was white crystallization in the connection. Couldn't really see much of it from the outside, but when unplugged you could see it, and feel it. I cleaned it the best I could, but it wasn't perfect.

Now that you say that, yes, the battery had overflowed at some point because the exhaust shield is all scored ......

Pretty sharp Ken.... I appreciate that, I feel better about leaving the other connections now.

 

[Ken Bergen]

imported post

jobe05 wrote:

Now that you say that, yes, the battery had overflowed at some point because the exhaust shield is all scored ......

Pretty sharp Ken.... I appreciate that, I feel better about leaving the other connections now.

Discoloration on the exhaust is normal as that's where the battery vent goes.
Corrosion around the plug on the other hand means that the battery is venting directly onto the plug, cracked or not connected vent tube.

 

[jobe05]

imported post

The corrosion on the exhaust shield was because the batter cracked from sitting for so long according to the PO. But your probably right also, either way, The yellow wires are now soldered together, heat shrinked and wrapped in pipping so it won't rub on anything. Dog Bones are gone and new 30 amps installed and the bike was rode again............

 

[wingsam41]

imported post

I don't believe battery venting is the only cause. My SEI had it's connector at battery soldered and at same time new regulator installed. Less than 500 miles later on a long trip and the connector at the regulator burned. This connector was checked and cleaned and fully seated during regulator replacement- it was in perfect shapethen overheated. Next came the connector where it goes though the radio filter. All are now soldered. May be Ken that some of the venting problems come from overcharging regulators that boil the battery over.
Further I don't believemost issues at solenoid arewith the dogbone itself but rather the 4 wire connector that connects to the solenoid and ultimately to the dogbone. While older dogbone fuses may crack or fail from age, usually the issue is overheating resultingfrom bad connections. This results inpoor charging, or power loss. If you are doing away with the dogbone you need to cut the larger wires out of the 4 wire connector and join those with an inline fuse holder. Leave the smaller wires alone as those are the connection for the control coil of the start solenoid.
Personally I think the issue is where the spade terminals within the connector crimp to the wire. Age creates corrosion and heat results. While I am sure that battery acid can speed up the process of corrosion I don't believe it is the only cause.

 

[jobe05]

imported post

wingsam41 wrote:

If you are doing away with the dogbone you need to cut the larger wires out of the 4 wire connector and join those with an inline fuse holder. Leave the smaller wires alone as those are the connection for the control coil of the start solenoid.

Im sorry, I don't understand this. I know the wires you refer, But why, If I removed the dogbone and installed a new inline......

Or is it because of the connection?? (told ya I was stupid)........

 

[wingsam41]

imported post

The 3rd pic in your first post is what I am referring to. The dogbone located on the start solenoid has a black connector with 4 wires attached to it. The cover for the dogbone has a tab that feeds through a slot in that connector. The 2 rear wires are thinner 1 is power from the start button the other is a ground. These have to remain in the connector for starter operation. The 2 larger #10 guage wires in the 4 wire connector are basically the in and out of the inline or "dogbone" fuse. To bypass the dogbone simply cut the 2 #10 Guage wires out of the connector(disconnect battery first) then join them with an inline fuse holder. My SEI still has the dogbone installed but I have replaced it with a new one and have extras and cleaned the connctions. Additionally I carry an inline fuse holder and tools in the event it does fail I can easily repair it roadside.

 

[rayworx]

imported post

Tricky's picture is EXACTLY what I've seen on the LTD's before plus the 2spade connector can go bad too. So… to dis-agree with Ken… the damage at the reg/rec is heat related.
The reg/rec is located almost 3 ft away from the battery…. I don't buy the damage to the regulator/rectifier as battery venting.
I've seen at least a dozen LTD/SEi's do exactly the same thing. Not at 11k miles normally… that is low miles. There could be another electrical problem associated with the damage… but not the battery venting. Do you have a liquid battery? Could it be low on fluid? That could cause an over charging and heat buildup at the reg/rec connectors.

The 4 connectors at the top of the starter solenoid can corrode and if you can save them (at the connector) TRY TO. I've had to cut out the plug and wire in spade connectors to replace the connector before. A lot of Honda connectors will do this same thing. By wiring in a 30amp fuse kit (described before) you can retain the solenoid connector…. as long as it's still good. Route the wires and the new fuse towards the top and you can close the front flap and it almost looks stock. As long as the black fuse block isn't damaged… why destroy it? Do like on the solenoid…. unscrew the dog bone fuse and put the new fuse kit in it's place. Yes… it's that easy and the dog bone fuses are 30amp.

 

[jobe05]

imported post

Ok, heres what I did: Took both dog bones out and installed 30 amp in lines. Both, I just removed the screws holding the dog bone and put the in line back on those screw post. No wires were cut in doing this, except the 3 yellow wires.

Top dog bone gone, 30 amp inline in place.

Bottom dog bone on the solenoid is gone and now has a 30 amp inline.

3 Wire connection gone, wires soldered, shrink wrapped, and covered.

Did not do anything with the wires up above near the regulator.

Anything else I need to do?

 

[wingsam41]

imported post

Jobe05 it's difficult to see but there may be an issue with the repair you've done on the main dogbone. I believe the most common issue is not with the dogbone itself but with the 4 wire connector that comes into the solenoid where the larger 2 of the 4 wires attach.Basically that means that the dogbone itself isn't the issue that causes overheating of this plug. By piggybacking onto the same 2 screws you aren't really changing anything. The original dogbones will corrode crack or disintigrate as may have happened with yours but new ones are available.
The point is while your repair is fine, electrically it is the same as installing another dogbone. If you wish to pre-emptively perform the repair needed to prevent overheating you need to cut the 2 wires out of the connector and join them with a fuse. As configured you could still experience connector overheating at the solenoid connector. Personally I've left my dogbone (replaced with new)and since connector is easily accessible I just check it often.
Lastly I strongly urge you to solder the connections at the regulator. Mine looked perfect when I soldered the lower plug and then burned up on a long ride less than 2 weeks later.

 

[jobe05]

imported post

wingsam41 wrote:

Jobe05 it's difficult to see but there may be an issue with the repair you've done on the main dogbone. I believe the most common issue is not with the dogbone itself but with the 4 wire connector that comes into the solenoid where the larger 2 of the 4 wires attach.Basically that means that the dogbone itself isn't the issue that causes overheating of this plug. By piggybacking onto the same 2 screws you aren't really changing anything. The original dogbones will corrode crack or disintigrate as may have happened with yours but new ones are available.
The point is while your repair is fine, electrically it is the same as installing another dogbone. If you wish to pre-emptively perform the repair needed to prevent overheating you need to cut the 2 wires out of the connector and join them with a fuse. As configured you could still experience connector overheating at the solenoid connector. Personally I've left my dogbone (replaced with new)and since connector is easily accessible I just check it often.
Lastly I strongly urge you to solder the connections at the regulator. Mine looked perfect when I soldered the lower plug and then burned up on a long ride less than 2 weeks later.

So I can just cut the two Larger wires out of the connector and install a 30Amp in line between the two wires? (Leaving the 30 amp inline in place of the dogbone)

I have been thinking about the top connectors and will cut them out and run one wire from the bottom to the regulator. If theres no need to have them there, it's just one less issue that "Can" Happen, so why have them.

 

[wingsam41]

imported post

You are over complicating this a bit. Have a look at 3rd pic in your very 1st post. You can clearly see the black 4 pin connector with the 2 #10 wires that are red/white in color. Electrically speaking wire on left connects to left screw of dogbone. Right screw of dogbone electrically connects to right wire. Essentially the red/white wire loops through the solenoid interrupted by the dogbone. There is no real reason to have them in the solenoid or attached to it at all. Simply cut them free of the connector and join each 1 to either side of the inline fuse holder.