[IdahoRaider]

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Thought this article interesting.:?

http://www.hdforums.com/industry-news/things-getting-hot-for-harley-davidsons-air-cooled-engines.php?=industrynews&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=



I do not know, but I would be willing to bet this is the reason that so many of their large engines have to be rebuiltsomewhere after 50 k. miles.Just my opinion. I am not bashing HD, just saying.....

 

[peterbilt]

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ive fixed airplane engines that run hotter than hd's ever will but they run 3,000 feet in the air


a hd runs hot yes but really as long as you keep moving they really are not that hot, now if your in traffic a normal person would shut the bike off after sitting in traffic for 5 minutes or 10 minutes, hd has kicked around the idea of a water cooled motor but to be honest the hd's trade mark is a big v-twin motor just sittin out there, i believe the vrod is a liquid cooled engine

and ive heard talk that they are going to introduce a liquid cooled toruing modle in the next few years or so i hear

 

[jobe05]

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Amazing the crap an attorney can trump up.

If we had Tort reform I'd bet there wouldn't be an attorney in this country that would take a case against HD.

 

[Wolfman]

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I'm not particularly a fan of the HD design, however, it is what they do, and thier design has been in place for a long time.

It's absurd for someone to sue them over their air cooled design. If they don't like the air cooled design, there are plenty of water cooled bikes out there.

 

[jpelmer]

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Tell them to shut the hell up or buy another bike. Harley can make whatever the heck they want and let the market decide ... my 2 cents.

 

[GLester]

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jpelmer wrote:

Tell them to shut the hell up or buy another bike. Harley can make whatever the heck they want and let the market decide ... my 2 cents.

I agree. If they want a water cooled Harley, buy a V-Rod.:shock:

Gene:action:

 

[rgbeard]

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Loud pipes may save lives but hot cylinder heads will set your pants on fire.

 

[Broke Winger]

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Well, there are many other air cooled motors out there, and none of them run hot enough to set clothing on fire.

It's my opinion that their reluctance to go to liquid cooled motors has nothing to do with history, or their market. They'd have no trouble selling them. The problem is the revenue they would lose on parts for the 30k mile rebuilds.

They are fully aware of how their engines destroy themselves, and just as aware of the money they make because of it.

 

[JerryH]

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I happen to like Harleys, they are the only company that has for the most part stuck to their original simple designs, and they are that much better for it. The heat part is simply and easily fixed, they run hot because they are set to lean. All you have to do is remap the fuel injection, and they will run just fine. Harleys have been around for over 100 years, and are still using the same basic engine design. You can't say that about any other company. The EPA is what messed things up, but like I said, there is an easy fix for that. A properly built and properly jetted Harley engine will last at least 100,000 miles. And at least a Harley can be rebuilt, completely rebuilt, over and over again. And when you run out of rebuilds, Harley sells new engines. Try to find that with any Japanese company.

 

[24.4ZOOM]

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Hasn't BMW had oilheads and airheads etc..for a very long time? Is it a difference in engineering that keeps the famed BMWs on the road for so long, or maintenance. I agree with the statement about the properly set up HD engine. I personally know of several HDs approaching 6 digits on the odo and the heads have never been off. I think it's all in the care and skill of the mechanic.

Patrick

 

[IRAQI RAM]

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jobe05 wrote:

...If we had Tort reform I'd bet there wouldn't be an attorney in this country that would take a case against HD.

TortReform also meansBetsy next door would be limited to getting 100k for having her life totally fu*&ed up by her coked up doctor who cut off the wrong leg and then had to cut off the correct leg, leaving her with 2 stumps instead of 1.
Always 2 ways to look at something. The way insurance companies want you to look at something, and the little guy's point of view.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee instead of swallowing the crap on Fox.
As for HD being sued, I don't give a rat's behind. The country's bankrupt and people are jobless. More important things to worry about: Like insurance companies anddoctors trying to screw us more by getting Tort Reform passed. cya

 

[englishted]

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Wolfman wrote:

It's absurd for someone to sue them over their air cooled design.   If they don't like the air cooled design, there are plenty of water cooled bikes out there.

I agree. It's isn't like he didn't know it was air cooled in the first place.

 

[peterbilt]

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i showed my dad this thread and the "ruling" he just laughed and said what next they gonna sue mcdonalds and the twinkie factory for contributing to obesity

god i about died laughing

 

[redeyes88]

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JerryH wrote:

I happen to like Harleys, they are the only company that has for the most part stuck to their original simple designs, and they are that much better for it. The heat part is simply and easily fixed, they run hot because they are set to lean. All you have to do is remap the fuel injection, and they will run just fine. Harleys have been around for over 100 years, and are still using the same basic engine design. You can't say that about any other company. The EPA is what messed things up, but like I said, there is an easy fix for that. A properly built and properly jetted Harley engine will last at least 100,000 miles. And at least a Harley can be rebuilt, completely rebuilt, over and over again. And when you run out of rebuilds, Harley sells new engines. Try to find that with any Japanese com

Harley gets thier carbuetors from Japan,who wants to rebuild,rebuild...A harley with 50,000 miles is worthless,if you can find one with 50---mho

 

[JerryH]

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I have seen many Harleys with over 100,000 miles on them. No, they will not last 300,000 miles like a Goldwing (that's IF you are lucky, and it is treated right and it is properly maintained. But Harleys are very inexpensive to rebuild, only a few hundred dollars, if you do it yourself, and that's the best way to ensure it is done right. Yes there are a number of Japanese parts on a new Harley, but the design of the engine is anything but Japanese. The Japanese try to copy the look and sound, and from a distance they have succeeded. So do the Japanese copies of Harleys fall apart just as easily? I hope not, because they cannot be rebuilt without replacing half the engine.

The reason vintage and classic cars exist is because they can be rebuilt. Their bodies and frames were seriously overbuilt, and unless you live in the rust belt, or have a serious accident, they can be made to last a century or more. You can still even get replacement body panels for them. I'm 52, and have '64 and '72 model cars that I intend to continue driving for the rest of my life. The bodies are solid as a rock, and mechanical parts can be replaced forever, they will always be available.

Same with Harley. You could take a 1950s Panhead basket case, and build a complete running motorcycle out of it using aftermarket parts. You cannot do that with ANY Japanese bike, and that is a shame, because there are a lot of Japanese bikes worth saving, including the 4 cylinder Goldwings. But as the owner of one of those, I have spent hours searching high and low for parts, and came up empty. There are still a few accessories out there, but no actual oem parts or copies.

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

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I know a lot of HD riders, ...a lot of 'em. Most don't wrench, not even an oil change.

I own and ride a 33-34 year old motorcycle. It's a old Goldwing and they know it. I ride it everyday. They see me doing so. They know I wrench on it, but they know I wrench on it out of.... maintenance, boredom, joy, whatever. They know I don't wrench on it out of necessity.

My old GL gets respect from these guy's (and some gal's). It's not so much me that gets the respect either, it's the bike. Some of these guy's turn their nose up at me (meaning my bike) for their own crazy reasons, but they're usually the ones who have to have their bike in the shop for intake gaskets or something equally minor yet expensive.

They know my bike is reliable. My buddy Cliff has two mid 80's FXR's. One just turned 100K miles with the heads never have been taken off. He parked it and started riding his other one with 8K miles. Essentially a new FXRT and a exact copy of his 100K mile bike. Nothing wrong with the first one, it's just Cliff that wants to ride the new one now that the other one has 6 figures of mileage. A proud mark for him to hit with that bike in all reality, ...never had the heads off. He knows the relevance.

Both bikes are completely stock.

...

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

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Frivolous lawsuit at best. Reminds me of the women sueing McDonalds over getting burned by hot coffee - stupid. That a judge could actually condone such issues going to court says nothing good about the legal system IMO. Anyone with half a brain knows what they're getting into when they buy a Harley. I think those back cylinders on HDs live a hard life... especially idling around in city traffic.

 

[norton]

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Why does HD keep making air cooled engines?

Because they're simple to build (read-profitable).
The V twin design is compact and works well within the confines of a motorcycle frame.

ALSO, Harley's marketing dept. has done a great job of convincing the sheeple that it is what they want.

I believe that they (HD) have taken the air cooled lump about as far as they can. Heat has ALWAYS been an issue with the design.
HD has put a lot of work into the ignition software to help with the problem.
shutting off the rear cylinder when it doesn't have any air moving around it.
(google EITMS)

IMHO it's just a band-aid on the real issue.
That design is a dinosaur and needs to evolve, but they are still making money from of it so they don't want to kill it off just yet.

 

[Anim8or Earl]

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From that report:

"Further complicating matters, the plaintiffs are relying upon undisputed evidence of Harley marketing larger engines, which are unable to meet emission standards in many states (one of those being California)."

I think most of us realize that Harleys air cooled motors will slowly be legislated out of existence. It will be a shame to see them go, but they will have to be superceded by liquid cooling if Harley is to continue making motorcycles.

 

[galaxyhunter]

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JerryH wrote:

I have seen many Harleys with over 100,000 miles on them. No, they will not last 300,000 miles like a Goldwing (that's IF you are lucky, and it is treated right and it is properly maintained. But Harleys are very inexpensive to rebuild, only a few hundred dollars, if you do it yourself, and that's the best way to ensure it is done right. Yes there are a number of Japanese parts on a new Harley, but the design of the engine is anything but Japanese. The Japanese try to copy the look and sound, and from a distance they have succeeded. So do the Japanese copies of Harleys fall apart just as easily? I hope not, because they cannot be rebuilt without replacing half the engine.

The reason vintage and classic cars exist is because they can be rebuilt. Their bodies and frames were seriously overbuilt, and unless you live in the rust belt, or have a serious accident, they can be made to last a century or more. You can still even get replacement body panels for them. I'm 52, and have '64 and '72 model cars that I intend to continue driving for the rest of my life. The bodies are solid as a rock, and mechanical parts can be replaced forever, they will always be available.

Same with Harley. You could take a 1950s Panhead basket case, and build a complete running motorcycle out of it using aftermarket parts. You cannot do that with ANY Japanese bike, and that is a shame, because there are a lot of Japanese bikes worth saving, including the 4 cylinder Goldwings. But as the owner of one of those, I have spent hours searching high and low for parts, and came up empty. There are still a few accessories out there, but no actual oem parts or copies.

Is it impossible for you not to bash GW's in every one of your posts? To read your posts, it is amazing that you own one. You posts sounds like your the head HD poster boy. Please give the bashing a rest. Do you really think your going to change anybodys mind about GW's?