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Hello,

Quick question for you if anyone can help here. Found these cool chromy horns off a 79 Wing parts bike that happened to drop in my lap. They shined up really nice and both work. (Also pulled some much needed shrouds off in great condition since my 83A is now fairingless...woohoo!)

Anyways....Trouble I'm having is when trying towire the hornson my 83 Aspy I cannot get them BOTH to work simultaneously. Independently wired they both work very nicely, (one a higher pitch than the other) but when wired together in ANY configuration (asmy old horns were), one seems to cancel out the other and neither honks. Can anyone help with this? Am I missing something? Wouldn't they have been wired together the same way on the '79?

Thanks for any help guys,

LarryG
 

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If the horns are wired in series, try wiring then in parallel. That way, the tail end charlie gets its full volts/amps. Only thing I can think of off the top of my head--assuming your electrical system is up to snuff.
 

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Hawker

Tried wiring in both series and parallel and nada. Think the electrical system is pretty good as the light dim when activating horn, bike not running is very faintly noticeable...gonna go back and retry EVERY possible configuration i can as the wires to the horns are not color coded. Just seems weird as my old horns would both work no matter which way they were wired together. puzzling, but I'll keep at it till i figure it out....maybe the problem is I need to crack a beer. Things always seem to work that way:)

Seems they run a constant hot, and the switch grounds the horn...

LarryG
 

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you might allso put in a relay circuit. the new horns might draw too much poser and toast the system. also, as above, run in parellell not in series
 

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Horns and other high amp devices will often need to be balanced in sound and voltage along with the amperage. You should try wiring them up in parallel off the 12 Vdc battery directly with #12 wire, if they work together and the sound is what you want then do not adjust the tonal qualities nor the input qualities. Likely as not your existing wiring may have a problem handling the double load of these two horns. The horn button may be at fault with bad contacts adding resistance to the load, the wiring may be frayed again adding resistance to the load and with the 2 units trying to work the voltage drop is so great that only one horn will work. That is the horn that actually gets the voltage first, they are in parallel but the load is so high that the wire feed usually hits one horn and then that horn has jumpers to the other horn. You may have to run your wires to a terminal strip and then parallel from that strip to give each horn . It is possible that the grounding of each horn is not perfect and the non working horn sees a greater resitance both in the + line but also in the - line, the frame. Also at 1983 your complete electrical system is in trouble and the new horns are now bringing that problem to the front. I suggest that all electrical wires, connectors be removed, cleaned and cleaned again, then put together 3x then cleaned again, then reinstalled and then verified that the connection is solid and good. This is a pain to do, simple to do and must be done, or how else will you know the system is in complete working order. Any joints need to be soldered and not crimped only. The battery needs to be in a full charge state. At 20 AH the battery will deliver enough amps to start the horns vibrating but will soon run down if not up to snuff. A battery at 11 volts is not enough to handle the full load of the horns with electrics on. A 12 VDC battery should charge at 14.8 VDC and if this is the case the battery and alternator should handle the load. Verify the amps draw that the horns take and verify the voltage when in operation. Post your results and also verify the electrical system is running as it should. A quick and cheap load test is to check the voltage of each cell by testing from the poitive terminal to the cell closest to it and continue to go from the positive terminal to the next cell, then the next, by putting the DMM lead in the acid, but do not touch the top of the plates. Each cell should read the same. If any cell is lower that may be a problem. The battery bottom may be full of discharged lead material and this material when deep enough on the bottom will short out a cell. Again check it out and post your results. Batteries can be brought back to life but it is a dangerous process and a messy one. Most people say the hell with it and buy a new battery and then have the old one recycled.
 

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LarryG wrote:
Hawker

Tried wiring in both series and parallel and nada. Think the electrical system is pretty good as the light dim when activating horn, bike not running is very faintly noticeable...gonna go back and retry EVERY possible configuration i can as the wires to the horns are not color coded. Just seems weird as my old horns would both work no matter which way they were wired together. puzzling, but I'll keep at it till i figure it out....maybe the problem is I need to crack a beer. Things always seem to work that way:)

Seems they run a constant hot, and the switch grounds the horn...
Larry, those horns probably draw all of 25-30 amps when starting & close to that while in operation.. There is just no way your stock horn wiring will handle that current & leave enough to toot your horn.. Your stock system only has a 15 amp fuse for the horn circuit so if it didn't blow the fuse trying those horns thenthose stock wires are really resisting & dropping the current to under 15 amps..

Most automobiles use a horn relay even for the wimpy stock horns so you know you will need one for those big tooters..

Because the early Wings use a switched power TO the horns to operate them (not a ground connection like on a car) youprobably should use 4 or 5 terminal Bosch type relay.. If you use a small square Bosch type relay ( available from any auto parts store) wire as follows--

Run a 30 amp fused 12 gauge wire from the battery's (+) post to the (#30) terminal on the relay,, run a 12 gauge wire from the relay's (87) terminal to the horn's "power in" wires,, run the (86) terminal of the relay to chassis ground,, then hook the original light green Honda horn wire to the relays (85) terminal.. Then either ground the horns (-) wires to the chassis, or run a 12 gauge wire from those wires directly back to the battery's (-) post..

Before going too far hook the horn's (+) wires to the battery's (+) post & the horn's (-) wires to the battery's (-) post just to see if they will fire off & toot. If so, installing a relay as above will do the trick..

Twisty
 

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Thanks all for the replies....

gonna check it out and see...I may just run ONE horn as it seems to work fine, is plenty loud and I'll leave the other one as a dummy. Don't wanna take any chances and mess things up. Wasn't aware that the stock horns set-up on a '79 was so different than on the '83! I figured...phht...they're just horns, how much can they draw?. Shows how little I know:) DOH!! Ah well....I'm learnin anyways.

I shoulda figured as much, as the '79 wing horns are 2x louder and much deeper sounding than my stock units on the '83. BTW...charging system is reading 14.5 and it has abrand newbattery in it. Running, it reads off the ACC terminals and off the battery at 14.5v. When I step on the brakes it drops to 14 then rises back up again. (with all lights running as well as light bars Lit in the rear) if that means anything. I'm Thinking about running 2 35 watt running lights and would rather have them than horns anyways:) since I can count on one hand the amount of times I've ever used a horn on a bike. Just thought it would be cool to have the option:)

LarryG
 

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LarryG wrote:
Thanks all for the replies....

gonna check it out and see...I may just run ONE horn as it seems to work fine, is plenty loud and I'll leave the other one as a dummy. Don't wanna take any chances and mess things up. Wasn't aware that the stock horns set-up on a '79 was so different than on the '83! I figured...phht...they're just horns, how much can they draw?. Shows how little I know:) DOH!! Ah well....I'm learnin anyways.

I shoulda figured as much, as the '79 wing horns are 2x louder and much deeper sounding than my stock units on the '83. BTW...charging system is reading 14.5 and it has abrand newbattery in it. Running, it reads off the ACC terminals and off the battery at 14.5v. When I step on the brakes it drops to 14 then rises back up again. (with all lights running as well as light bars Lit in the rear) if that means anything. I'm Thinking about running 2 35 watt running lights and would rather have them than horns anyways:) since I can count on one hand the amount of times I've ever used a horn on a bike. Just thought it would be cool to have the option:)

LarryG
Larry, while one horn does seem to operate for you my guess is you will eventually burn your handle bar horn switch contactsup if you use the horn enough. That switch just isn't meant to handle that high of a current.

Twisty
 

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Thanks Twisty....gonna check into that relay. If that will make it work, that'll be awesome!. As I understand it...hooking up this relay this way, you are grounding the horns, and making the horn button a momentary switchable to the relay..?..correct?

Is there any specific relay I should ask for? You know how the guys at Auto Zone are. (what make, model. color and tire pressure)


LarryG
 

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I'm surprised the bike isn't wired with a horn relay. Even with the OEM horns, it's a pretty good load. I wouldn't think the difference in current draw between a 79 and a 83 would be all that great. You should be able to hook up the new horns the same way the old ones were with no problem. It would be worth your while to test both horns wired in parallel to a battery and measure the current drawn. Do the same with the old horns and see what the difference is. It's very possible there's something not quite kosher with the new horns. The horns are connected in parallel on the bike. On my bike I have an aircompressor for the airhorn connected in parallel with one of the OEM horns and have no problem with blown fuses.
 

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 .........just go to Auto Zone... or Pep boys , or whatever .. and ask for a 30 amp or more  relay...  That size should not be much more than $6.00/forums/images/emoticons/tongue.gif , or so ...  Get an inline fuse holder, and fuse , and  a small roll of 12 ga wire... and away you go./forums/images/emoticons/shock.gif....  I had the same sorta problem when I added my Fiamms... if your light dims... its a sign you are running TOO much off the acc / light/ horn circuitry..... direct wire to the battery... and let your old horn circuit just close the relay ..... there are many sites to help you.... Here is one :                        http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/hornrelay.html     /forums/images/emoticons/smile.gif  ... it looks as if you have to copy , and paste this URL... sorry                                             30 and #87 to the horns... #86 to the switch / your acc box   and there you are... I would Zap strap  up all the wires,for neatness................ and on my bike.. I always use a firm western union splice, solder, double shrink wrap... but ..... that's because I am paranoid.. I have met several fellows with operational bikes  who have no problems using househols murettes... so ...                     SilverDave /forums/images/emoticons/emoticonsxtra/cooldj.gif
 

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Muchos Gracias all...with any luck I'll be horned soon. Or something like that:)

Thanks,

LarryG
 

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LarryG wrote:
Thanks Twisty....gonna check into that relay. If that will make it work, that'll be awesome!. As I understand it...hooking up this relay this way, you are grounding the horns, and making the horn button a momentary switchable to the relay..?..correct?

Is there any specific relay I should ask for? You know how the guys at Auto Zone are. (what make, model. color and tire pressure)


LarryG
Larry, yes, what that relay does is act as a large switch to actually hook the horn's power wires directly to the battery when activated.. There is a small winding inside the relay that "flips the switch" inside the relay" & that is controlled by your original horn switch & circuit.

Those small square Bosh type relays are very common & used in a lot of late model G.M. cars & trucks as fuel pump relays, fog light relays, running light relays, power control relays, etc.. There are many versions of that relay, some with only 4 terminals, some have clipping diodes inside, some have clipping resistors inside. Just ask for the cheapest small square relay for the late model G.M. applications, most auto parts stores will know what you are looking for.. While most all small relays will work,, if you make sure the terminal layout is etched on the side of the relay case (30, 87a, 87, 85, 86) you will have an easy to use relay. (I use them for many projects). The 87a terminal isn't used so leave it open, or cut it off, or cover it with heat shrink (the 4 terminal relaydoesn't even have the 87a terminal on it).

Starting at the battery get2 crimp-on"eye rings" that will fit the battery post bolts (12 gauge wire size that have 1/4" ring holes),, then a length of 12 gauge stranded wire,, also get 4 or 5 crimp on terminals that will fit the relay terminal prongs.. Maybe also get a few lengths of heat shrink tubing to slide over the terminal connections to water proof the connections, also get a 30 amp fuse & fuse holder (either a spade type or in-line tube type).. Those relays are fairly water proof but still should be mounted with the terminals pointing downward slightly (never pointing up).. That2nd ring terminal is used to either terminate both horn ground wires to the frame (or if running the horn ground directly back to the battery that2nd ring is used there).

Twisty
 
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