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In Ontario a provincial member of parliament has introduced a bill (Bill 117) that would ban passengers under fouteen years of age on a motorcycle. There is no statistical evidence of any epidemic problems with next to no injuries reported.

We already have legislaton with regards to passengers having to wear helmets, feet be on the pegs etc.

Someone just wanted to make a name for themself. There are active petitions going around in hopes of a negative vote.

I couldn't help but think of Cousin Jack and the cherished times he had with his son. I envision him being a fine person with his life greatly enhanced by his experiences. Life is better measured by memories than hours.


Just venting :headbanger:


If anyone cares to email our minister of tourism with their comments please do so. She didn't intoduce the bill but her ministry has the most to lose in this police state issue.

Monique Smith

[email protected]
 

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i dont think this is an age limit over here for children as long as they can reach the pegs and wear a helmet,my grandsonwas nearly five, when hetook his first ride on my gpz 500s, i bought some pillion grips/love handles for him so he could hold on to me, the second time he told me to take them off, he loves the wing, everytime i go and see him he gets his riding gear on expecting a ride,and he always gets one, he's nearly ten now
 

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Nobbie you caught that double post before I had a chance to fix it....But on this subject of banning children under 14 riding as passengers, I will own up to giving my daughter her first ride on a motorcycle at age 3...I made sure that she was secured to me with a belt type system, and she rode there until she was 5 yrs old...If you thought I was going to get on my bike and get out of the yard except to go to work, you were wrong...She would go running thru the house looking for her "leathers", her gloves, her boots, and her helmet !!!!

Then on one of the many "rides" we made there was a guy that had extended his frame on a BMW to accommodate his wife and their 10 year old son....On the way to this ride in the hill country, An inexperienced female on a Silver Wing ( less that two weeks riding and no learn to ride classes) made a left turn in front of him, and in that wreck his wife lost her life, he had several broken bones, and the son rode that bike, stuck in the fairing down that road for over 100 yards, he lived with minor injuries....After that my daughter was no longer a rider with me till she turned 12 or 13 years old....

I can't write letters to your minister of tourism there, but I would hope that she has enough common sence to back off from this action....Short note here....A Ms. Joan Claybrook here in the States over the transportation board ( I think) decided that ALL motorcycles were unsafe and decided to have a "safe" motorcycle built...Well she did have one built, it had an enclosed cage, and here's the weird part....it steered at the back wheel , not the front...OK trail date was set, the guy that was going to test it got in and within the next few SECONDS!!!! fell over breaking a bunch of bones.....It in the long run cost her that job and is known as "Claybrooks folly".....

Claude....
 

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I do not know how I feel about that. I have mixed feelings about it. I know as I grew up and rode a bike all the time the only thing I had to worry about for the most part was something I might do that was stupid and cause my own problems or accident.
There was not as much traffic on the road, the interstates were a great place to ride and not real crowded. There was less traffic, the pace of life was slower.

Today it is wall to wall people, people in a hurry, life is lived at a fast pace, and most people are not concerned with watching out for a bike. They are in such a hurry that they just rip around with thoughts on their life and one ear glued to a cell phone. The interstates are now bumper to bumper traffic, all running at 80mph. One mistake by one person and it is like dominoes. I have been involved in a couple of deals on those things in the last few years and one time I did have my daughter on the back of the bike, vehicles went all directions, all you could see for two miles were the flash of brake lights. I took the right grass area and came to a stop, the vehicle behind me slammed into the one in front of me.......so yea, I am concerned about more than just me.

I know it is very seldom now that I will take my daughter on a ride. My wife likes to go, but I am actually grateful that she does not like to go on some of the extended trips I take every year. I would never want to put either of them in harms way.

I feel very confident in my skills on a bike, I will pay attention, but I have friends from time to time that do go down for good on a bike. When will it happen to me? I always have this thought in my mind from time to time, I do not allow it to bother me as I suppose I came to grips with fear in Vietnam. But I am very concerned when I have a member of my family with me on one of these machines.

So I guess , I really do not know how to view that law. Might be a good one, but also restrict our rights, just the same I cannot make a decision on that one, as having a passenger I am always more careful, and very concerned that something beyond my control could happen.

Kit
 

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My daughter and I do at least one "Daddy/Daughter trip" every summer. These trips are usually between 3,000 - 5,000 miles.

Flygirl loves it and hopefully it will be memories she will never forget because I sure do. :action:

I'm like Kit, I do worry about my passenger especially the "what if's" but as a family, we made the decision to do this. My wife, my daughter and I are very happy with our decision. Don't get me wrong, I am probably even more cautious with a passenger on board but it is a decision we made, not our government.

I love the little band aid sticker from Honda saying "Stupid Hurts"

Becareful out there.........it a jungle! :shock:
 

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It would be hard to over estimate the responsibility of riding with a passenger. The passenger is totally, 100% at the mercy of our control over the machine, and our recognition and reaction to the situations that happen around us.Whether the passenger is a 10 year old or a 70 year old doesn't make any difference, the responsibility for their survival rests on our decisions and skill. Would it not be of infinitely greater value to propose a billfor the education of both riders and drivers alike. Let's face it, the deadly accidents are the ones that involve thoughtlessness or stupidity by either the rider, or the driver. There are very few Non-preventable accidents!
 

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I like to ride my 10 year old son but I have something to fear more than a law being passed.....my wife!
She is absolutely against it until he reaches 16 years of age. What that age has to do with it beats me. He's already 5 feet tall and the few times I have rode him, he has rode like he's been at it for years.
 

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In the UK, we banned sidecars on the right of the bike,( used on the continent ) as apposed to the ones we have here, bolted on to the left of the bike. No evidence whatsoever that they were more dangerous, just some idiot minister dreamt it up one morning, and that was that......

Kev
 

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That seems odd when I can drive a Continental or North American LH drive car on British roads, or a RH drive car anywhere else in the world.

There are becoming more and more used vehicles from Japan and Hong Kong being imported into Canada, and while the insurance companies have not yet levied a fee, they say they are watching them closely. A side hack offers way more visibility to the operator than does an automobile.
 

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I too have mixed feelings on this subject. I read the article by Mark Richardson in last week's Toronto Star. I happen to know Mark and know that he is a responsible individual. I am sure that he would do nothing that would endanger his kids.

Zen and the art of Motorcycle maintenance was a book (which I have yet to read) which touched on the bonding experience of father and son on a motorcycle trip. The experience for both was a life-shaping event.

Yet I wonder about the wisdom of strapping a kid onto the back of a motorcycle. I ride because I love it. I accept the risk. It worries me, but it is a trade off I can live with. I am am (occasionally) amature adult and can make that choice.

Today, I thought about taking the bike to work. Ever determined to take that last ride. I wimped out and took the car. A guy pulled out right in front of me (on his cell phone). I burned rubber and stopped in time. I honestly don't thinkI could have controlled the bike and stopped so short. My point is that you don't have to do something stupid on a bike to get hit. The question that troubles me is that I don't think I am justified in exposing someone who is not mature enough to make a choice to that same risk.

I don't mean to get controversial. I just don't know the right answer.
 

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I learned to drive at age 5, sitting on my dad's lap in his '57 Buick, driving around the neighborhood while he worked the gas and brakeand drank beer. Ah, the good old days, when you could still have fun and not worry about political correctness.
 

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Kit Carson wrote:
I do not know how I feel about that. I have mixed feelings about it. I know as I grew up and rode a bike all the time the only thing I had to worry about for the most part was something I might do that was stupid and cause my own problems or accident.
There was not as much traffic on the road, the interstates were a great place to ride and not real crowded. There was less traffic, the pace of life was slower.

Today it is wall to wall people, people in a hurry, life is lived at a fast pace, and most people are not concerned with watching out for a bike. They are in such a hurry that they just rip around with thoughts on their life and one ear glued to a cell phone. The interstates are now bumper to bumper traffic, all running at 80mph. One mistake by one person and it is like dominoes. I have been involved in a couple of deals on those things in the last few years and one time I did have my daughter on the back of the bike, vehicles went all directions, all you could see for two miles were the flash of brake lights. I took the right grass area and came to a stop, the vehicle behind me slammed into the one in front of me.......so yea, I am concerned about more than just me.

I know it is very seldom now that I will take my daughter on a ride. My wife likes to go, but I am actually grateful that she does not like to go on some of the extended trips I take every year. I would never want to put either of them in harms way.

I feel very confident in my skills on a bike, I will pay attention, but I have friends from time to time that do go down for good on a bike. When will it happen to me? I always have this thought in my mind from time to time, I do not allow it to bother me as I suppose I came to grips with fear in Vietnam. But I am very concerned when I have a member of my family with me on one of these machines.

So I guess , I really do not know how to view that law. Might be a good one, but also restrict our rights, just the same I cannot make a decision on that one, as having a passenger I am always more careful, and very concerned that something beyond my control could happen.

Kit
One thing I'd like you to understand Kit, just like you said in your post about traffic, crowding, etc. Laws like this (if I understand nobbie correctly) are provincial laws. You ever see the size of Ontario? It looks 10 times the size of South Carolina. And there are plenty of out of the way places that would still mirror that image you grew up riding in.
Laws are blankets, and blankets don't pay attention to the issues they cover. They don't pay attention to population density, slabs, backroads, cottage country, big city. In my world travels what I find is the more laws that exist like this trying to take the place of common sense the less common sense people end up having.
 

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nomados wrote:
Kit Carson wrote:
I do not know how I feel about that. I have mixed feelings about it. I know as I grew up and rode a bike all the time the only thing I had to worry about for the most part was something I might do that was stupid and cause my own problems or accident.
There was not as much traffic on the road, the interstates were a great place to ride and not real crowded. There was less traffic, the pace of life was slower.

Today it is wall to wall people, people in a hurry, life is lived at a fast pace, and most people are not concerned with watching out for a bike. They are in such a hurry that they just rip around with thoughts on their life and one ear glued to a cell phone. The interstates are now bumper to bumper traffic, all running at 80mph. One mistake by one person and it is like dominoes. I have been involved in a couple of deals on those things in the last few years and one time I did have my daughter on the back of the bike, vehicles went all directions, all you could see for two miles were the flash of brake lights. I took the right grass area and came to a stop, the vehicle behind me slammed into the one in front of me.......so yea, I am concerned about more than just me.

I know it is very seldom now that I will take my daughter on a ride. My wife likes to go, but I am actually grateful that she does not like to go on some of the extended trips I take every year. I would never want to put either of them in harms way.

I feel very confident in my skills on a bike, I will pay attention, but I have friends from time to time that do go down for good on a bike. When will it happen to me? I always have this thought in my mind from time to time, I do not allow it to bother me as I suppose I came to grips with fear in Vietnam. But I am very concerned when I have a member of my family with me on one of these machines.

So I guess , I really do not know how to view that law. Might be a good one, but also restrict our rights, just the same I cannot make a decision on that one, as having a passenger I am always more careful, and very concerned that something beyond my control could happen.

Kit
One thing I'd like you to understand Kit, just like you said in your post about traffic, crowding, etc. Laws like this (if I understand nobbie correctly) are provincial laws. You ever see the size of Ontario? It looks 10 times the size of South Carolina. And there are plenty of out of the way places that would still mirror that image you grew up riding in.
Laws are blankets, and blankets don't pay attention to the issues they cover. They don't pay attention to population density, slabs, backroads, cottage country, big city. In my world travels what I find is the more laws that exist like this trying to take the place of common sense the less common sense people end up having.
Hi :waving:: So I goofed huh? I talk real sloooww, and sometimes think even slower. I think this has been kinda an awareness week for me. I went and said goodbye to a friend yesterday that died in an accident. Another member in our club ran off the road and on the site a member also had an accident . It is like this week is an epidemic. I understand a whole lot about laws, and once one is in place it never goes away, and many will and do restrict our rights. So I will simply say it was wrong for me to indicate in words what I did. Naturally yes I would chose to throw that law in the trash, as choice of what one does should always be the choice of that person, or at least they be given the choice to make. I understand, I just had a temporary mental problem. :D Kit
 

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I took my grandson(12 at the time), on a nice trip in 2006. He was a perfect pax. Then, his younger brother(9) wanted a ride too, so I took him on a much shorter trip. He was a terrible pax--he figitted, he fell asleep and leaned way out to either side. So that was to be his last trip until he gets some maturity, and learns how to behave. My wife is a good pax too, but whenever I am carrying any of my loved ones, I feel the stress. It would destroy me if I ever hurt one of them.

So it is the individual who must decide if a person is suitable as a passenger. A blanket law certainly protects the stupid from themselves, but at the expense of restriction of freedom for the responsible.
 

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Kit Carson wrote:
Hi :waving:: So I goofed huh? I talk real sloooww, and sometimes think even slower. I think this has been kinda an awareness week for me. I went and said goodbye to a friend yesterday that died in an accident. Another member in our club ran off the road and on the site a member also had an accident . It is like this week is an epidemic. I understand a whole lot about laws, and once one is in place it never goes away, and many will and do restrict our rights. So I will simply say it was wrong for me to indicate in words what I did. Naturally yes I would chose to throw that law in the trash, as choice of what one does should always be the choice of that person, or at least they be given the choice to make. I understand, I just had a temporary mental problem. :D Kit
I don't think anyone goofed in this thread. Everyone made civil comments about their point of view. Some thought there was merit to the law and others not. Some won't take their kids ona bike and others will. It's the dilemma of parenthood. Do you risk their well-being or over-shelter them?
 

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nobbie wrote:
Kit Carson wrote:
Hi :waving:: So I goofed huh? I talk real sloooww, and sometimes think even slower. I think this has been kinda an awareness week for me. I went and said goodbye to a friend yesterday that died in an accident. Another member in our club ran off the road and on the site a member also had an accident . It is like this week is an epidemic. I understand a whole lot about laws, and once one is in place it never goes away, and many will and do restrict our rights. So I will simply say it was wrong for me to indicate in words what I did. Naturally yes I would chose to throw that law in the trash, as choice of what one does should always be the choice of that person, or at least they be given the choice to make. I understand, I just had a temporary mental problem. :D Kit
I don't think anyone goofed in this thread. Everyone made civil comments about their point of view. Some thought there was merit to the law and others not. Some won't take their kids ona bike and others will. It's the dilemma of parenthood. Do you risk their well-being or over-shelter them?
:clapper:Well said nobbie.
Hey don't worry Kit, if your temporary problem becomes permanent you could always run for Parliament!:cooldevil:
 
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