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Looking for some coherent thoughts here:Dpreferably expressed in proper English with some even handed objectivity. :cheeky1:



Everywhere one looks, there are dire warnings about "loss of freedoms" in the realm of motorcycling. Setting aside the 1% ers, the tinfoil hat conspiracy fans, the LPSL crowd, and the "I won't ever wear a helmet nohow" group (gee, who's left?:shock:), I just don't see any massive effort to restrict safe and responsible motorcyle operation.After all,sales tax, gas tax, license fees and property tax on bikes arecash cows that nomoney hungry government entity wants to lose.



Yet around every corner we have ABATE, ABATE PAC, AMA, GWRRA,and uncounted other groups soliciting money purportedly to ward off "Big Brother".


So tell me, aside from the small percentage of collected monies that are actually applied to safety and educational programs, are any of these groups really worth it?



Having offended nearly every interest group, I will now retire to my foxhole, don my ATGATT and await the incoming...:dude:
 

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This site is the only group I belong to and that is good for me. Great people and good information.
 

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It depends on what you want. It is a safe bet there are people lobbying a politician, somewhere, for a law you're not going to like. For those of us that have to work for a living, we don't have the time or resources to 'keep an eye' on this.

Here, the *news* in mostly fluff. A dog and pony act. You'll learn nothing from it. CNN, Fox, MSNBC and the like have their own agenda. So these are limited to what peaks their interest.....or the viewers (marketing for ratings).

The best way, it isn't perfect either, is to have someone that represents your interests, on the spot. Interesting that with a representative form of government you have to have a representative, there, to keep an eye on it. But that is just the way it is.

The question would be....do any of these groups do this and are they any good at it?
 

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Most of the groups are either for no helmets, I have worn one since 1963 even when Cal. had no helmet law, or off road riding on public lands, I don't own a dirt bike anymore so its not my fight, or loud exhaust I ride a stock GL and a EX250 Kawa. its nice to hear whats around you, or traffic problems with cager's. Mel :waving:
 

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.......at the last two ABATE meetings I attended, the biggest thing on the agenda and the most important issue was "WHO" was going to be responsible for making sure there was enuff beer at the next meeting..........
 

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fenry wrote:
After all,sales tax, gas tax, license fees and property tax on bikes arecash cows that nomoney hungry government entity wants to lose.
Oh they will find other methods to tax. Bikes are no indispensable cash cow. Look at the tax revenues that will be given up when we tax cigarettes and alcohol to a point where they no longer gernerate the projected revenues. Taxes will go up on something else.
I kind of gather from your post Fenry that you do not like people fighting for what they view as personal rights if you see no use in those particular rights. Or, is it that you just do not feel any motorcycle organizations are worth belonging to? I might be missing your point. I read your post a couple times but I'm not sure what you are saying.
Our local Abate program is very strong in motorcycle saftey training. They also participate in public awareness programs which I strongly support. Nothing wrong with belonging to something like that. Nothing wrong with not belonging either.
 

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bbach wrote:
fenry wrote:
After all,sales tax, gas tax, license fees and property tax on bikes arecash cows that nomoney hungry government entity wants to lose.
I kind of gather from your post Fenry that you do not like people fighting for what they view as personal rights if you see no use in those particular rights. Or, is it that you just do not feel any motorcycle organizations are worth belonging to? I might be missing your point. I read your post a couple times but I'm not sure what you are saying.
I probably didn't express it very well.

I specifically noted that I have no problem with organizations' solicitations for valid safety programs. Nor do I have any objection to people fighting for "rights" (operating a motor vehicle in any jurisdiction is NOT a right but a privilege, by the way).

What I have difficulty understanding is the urgency of the various solicitations under the broad brush of "government is coming to take us away...". I've tried hard to get concerned, but having some professional understanding of acoustics, can't support the LPSL folk. I don't care whether people wear a helmet or not; I choose to because I don't care for stones, bugs and other road detritus hitting me in the face. I wear gear for the same reason, so I don't get excited about helmet/gear laws. Having been an LEO in a jurisdiction that at one time had "reasonable and prudent" as a speed limit, I can't get behind the "government is out to get us" movement either. Picked up too many innocent bodies.:(

This forum is generally mild, but many others seem to devote a fair amount of energy toward pushing motorcycle enthusiasts into an "us or them" mentality :? and hide behind social organizations and PACs. Bad Karma.

I've been a flight instructor for over 30 years, operated motorcycles for 44 years, driven 18 wheelers for 25, been an LEO for 11, and I fail to see any concerted government effort to curb "rights" in any of those areas to any extent that warrants the excitement these various interest groups seem bent on inciting.

What I HAVE seen is more effort put into making people understand that with privilege comes personal responsibility and assessing penalties for failing to discharge those responsibilities.

But then, that pretty much describes where we are as a nation, not simply motorcyclists.

What the hey; I'm not a joiner anyway and much prefer to ride alone... Just curious whether other folk had noted any urgency in solicitations and the amount of solicitations.

Peace.:)
 

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Now I see where you are coming from. I agree. I also don't see the urgency and pushiness of the solicitations of certain bike organizations in regards to their agenda, which you might or might not be concerned with.
Even our local Abate whom I support is too pushy. I understand the need for money to keep the organization going, but I don't like being set upon, especially if I beg off on a contribution.
I suppose the only thing they've got to keep money coming in and gathering up new members would be the "threat" of us losing our riding privileges without them. Maybe that's part of the reason for the preach.
 

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The only group I'm a member of is the AMA. They do a lot of good work. They've been instrumental in getting the lead ban dealt with. They were one of the loudest voices in getting motorcycles allowed in the HOV lanes. Plus they continuously monitor both federal and state lawmakers for any potential laws that would affect any rider, for better or worse. They have spearheaded the effort to get a more updated study on motorcycle accidents, as the "Hurt Report" is getting a bit dated. There are also numerous discounts available through membership, a pretty good monthly magazine, and free roadside assistance if you either get a 3 year membership or elect to get your membership automatically renewed via credit card.

I know this looks like I'm trying to talk everyone into joining, I'm not. I'm just expressing my opinion on why I'm a member.
 

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This subject is timely. August 1st I went to a local GWRRA meeting. I was surprised to see a room full of Goldwing owners and their co-riders. I asked questions and got good answers. I felt accepted and didnot get any vibes about any agenda's, except one of the selling points they offered me was the Charity they do for Diabetes in our local area. I have my own views on public display of charity, so this was not a selling point for me. Everyone I met at the meeting were anxious to ride. They look forward to riding. Several asked me to call them anytime I wanted to go somewhere and they would join me and if I ever wanted to join them on a ride, just ask. I have their paperwork and I am evaluating my interest. You have given me valuable insight so that I can make an informed decision.

In response to LPSL.. I feel there is a little bit of truth to this, but loud pipes can not make up for poor riding skills. That being said, quite motorcycles are noticed and then forgotten. If a quiet motorcycle sees an opening in traffic and decides to take the leap, he can just drop two gears and smoothly twist the throttleto purchase that piece of realestate. The traffic (not paying attention to his intentions) moves to fill the gap of unclaimed realestate. If he had LOUD PIPES,ALL traffic would be alerted to his CLAIM to that nice piece of asphalt and most of the time will let him place his claim unchallanged. Now,again that being said, HOW MANY LIVES does he have?

Loud Pipes are just loud!

Let's not getout our Cordless drillsto improve on our Goldwings by filling our pipes with holes. Instead learn to drive so your intensions are known, or save the racing tofill the gaps until you know your claim will go unchallanged.

I know that is not actually what you were asking in this thread, but you made me think about LPSL, so I responded.

FerrariMX5
 

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Ok, ATGATT is the best way to go. Sadly, I don't follow that.
I do wear a helmet all the time, but not all the gear.
How the heck do you stay cool in 100+deg heat with ATG?
So, I take my chances with a 3/4 helmet, nothing else.
Do you all not ride in the heat? No problem in the cold. I use a leather jacket and long pants (not ballistic).
I'm not opposed, just want to know what everyone else does.
Jim(inSC)
 

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53jimc wrote:
Ok, ATGATT is the best way to go. Sadly, I don't follow that.
So, I take my chances with a 3/4 helmet, nothing else.

Jim(inSC)
I try to follow the law in Florida, so I wear shorts, some girls wear a thong, but you.. You are a brave soul my friend..
 

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I have to answer the OP's question somewhat. Yes I hate the "Big Brother' scare tactics. That said I do belong to many PACs, not all involved with motorcycles. While I joined Abate and Abate PAC for the 'right to choice' issue, our state capitol rep has done some great things for us. With the help of some sympathetic politicions laws were passed to ban public businesses from barring 'bikers' entrance. Increased the penalities for 'failure to yield' violators. One of my favorites, passed a law to allow motorcycles that don't activate pressure sensitive stop light actuators, to run the light if it doesn't change after 45 seconds of waiting. I like the educational programs that various groups present to high schools, not allow do they educate students that might want to ride, they also teach the non riding students to be aware and respectful of cyclist. Each organization has it's own agenda true, but with a concerned membership groups can be guided to honest helpful issues not just Helmet Laws, LPSL and Touring issues.
Here's one that one of the groups help end. A certain group of riders were touring national landmarks on the east coast and were informed that motorcycles were NOT allowed to use the parking for various National Momuments? The group immediately went to thier representives office and make a repectful but well back display of anger over this and it was eventully chaged.
So Yes I agree scare tactics are WRONG but if we (motorcyclists) present a unified front we can help make sure that some practices are stopped.
Just my two cents.
Richard
 

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We also now have the light changing law for bikes here in South Carolina but we have to wait 3 minutes before safely running the light. I've only had to use it twice as a lot of the cities now have newer sensors installed in the road beds that trigger pretty good with a bike.

I did belong to the AMA but only because my insurance company paid for the membership which I no longer have. I like how they keep track of legislation on the national and state levels. Some of which they help get changed or oppose and others they help get passed for our benefit.
 

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In response to how you stay cool in hot weather (I live in North Texas), take a look at this site:

http://www.techniche-intl.com/content/blogcategory/26/86/

I use one of their vests and they work well...no, I don't have any vested (no pun intended) interest. Just started using a cooling vest this year and wish I had tried a LONG time ago...my bride found them for me.
 

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cubix,

That is a neat link to have. Thanks!
 

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I don't have a comparison of the groups... I am not an activist and I belong to them all, but for the specific reason to provide the funds (through dues) for them to continue to be the "bulldogs" of the sport...

I'll give an example..

here in Indiana (where I am working) there has been targeted enforcement (motorcycles but not cars and trucks) of noise laws... arbitrary targeted license fees to motorcycles for medical costs/support.... etc. The end result (if they are not resisted) is to tax/legislate the bike out of existence... These "alphabet" groups have successfully had these repealed... Left to individuals, we'd be prey to all big government... I might add that I hardly ever ride with them.. have and would with a goldwingfacts group though..
 
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