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Discussion Starter #1
This is to garner opinion and discussion, only.

The scene:

A motorcyclist, riding through a neighborhood on a surface street and a young woman backing out of her driveway, on a errand to the grocery store.

The cyclist is traveling double the posted 25mph speed limit and the woman, giving a quick glance, both directions, backs out into his path. Never having seen him.

He panics, slams on the rear brake and skids into the right rear fender of the car.

Who was at fault?
 

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a Quick Glance is what I get when I am approaching our driveway entrance.
We have a stone wall fence that curves from "parallel to the street, and around to parallel to our drive".


The space measuring 20 feet from the street back onto our property, is a "dead zone"..... and therefore, a Quick glance is similar to your hypothetical situation.


that quick glance is NOT a guarantee that no traffic is oncoming..... the speed of that traffic is irrelevant to a point...


But, once backing up, the driver must keep their eyes at the oncoming traffic, to do otherwise, puts them at fault for a collision.


over the years, I have been heading out of the driveway, the Quick Glance as I past the end of our stone wall there was no traffic to the west at all, non visible.... there is a RR Track there which is 15 feet higher than the US highway we exit out onto....


I cannot count the number of times, that the 20 feet of Dead Zone allowed someone to flat foot the throttle, looking at a cellphone, and flashes by my driveway entrance.... had I not stopped dead, to look Both Ways a 2nd time to guarantee no traffic, I would have been involved in a high speed T-bone accident. on the driver's side of our car..... a hospital trip is guaranteed in that situation.


The person on the Driveway has to assume all responsibility for entering a street safely,
the other traffic might be doing double the speed limit, and they do here all the time......
but, I am the one at fault if they hit me...
 

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The person on the Driveway has to assume all responsibility for entering a street safely,
the other traffic might be doing double the speed limit, and they do here all the time......
but, I am the one at fault if they hit me...
Exactly, but the guy doing double the speed limit doesn't have much right to complain.
 

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Not meaning to be rude to women drivers, , , BUT, , , ,if i was the motorcyclist, I'd have my agent/attorney check the womans cell phone records cuz you KNOW she was multi-tasking by texting or talking while backing up. ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Not meaning to be rude to women drivers, , , BUT, , , ,if i was the motorcyclist, I'd have my agent/attorney check the womans cell phone records cuz you KNOW she was multi-tasking by texting or talking while backing up. ;-)
Let's deal with the "hypothetical" facts as they are presented.
 

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Not meaning to be rude to women drivers, , , BUT, , , ,if i was the motorcyclist, I'd have my agent/attorney check the womans cell phone records cuz you KNOW she was multi-tasking by texting or talking while backing up. ;-)



True, and I would too, because 95% of the drivers blazing past my driveway and coming within 24 inches of my front bumper have a cellphone up to their ear.
( I have to creep out past the pavement edge just to see the road again )


We try very hard to never just drive out into the street w/o coming to a full stop.... it is like we are emerging from a tunnel immediately onto a 100 mph race track.


it is sad to say, but we all need one of the 360 Video cams that are being advertised now.... staying alert is our only protection.
 

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In a case like this, both drivers should be considered at fault.
 

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I hope you and Bike weren't hurt too badly, Dennis! And shouldn’t your be asking this of your lawyer?
 

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Two things come to mind the speed of the motorcyclist as mentioned and the backing out of a driveway.

The motorcyclist hits the car side, and because of this, initial fault could be said to be with the car and driver. If the motorcyclist had hit the rear of the car because of the angle the car was on the street, the motorcyclist would be at fault. Since this is not the case, lets stick with the car/driver being at fault initially.

However, in this situation where the motorcyclist "skids" into the right rear fender of the car, there should be a skid mark that would need to be investigated.

The speed of the motorcyclist cannot be determined until it is recreated by an investigative unit; however, through this investigation it may be determined that the motorcyclist was going in excess of the posted speed, and by how much. I would surmise that the investigative unit would recreate the scene by riding a police motorcycle on the same street at the posted speed, apply emergency braking where the skid mark starts and measure the distance required to stop. The police, being highly trained in emergency braking might give an expertise leeway/percentage and determine the probable speed of the motorcyclist.

If it was determined by the investigative unit that the motorcyclist had exceeded the posted speed limit by a significant margin, it is not out of the realm of probability that the motorcyclist would have liability as well.

Just a few thoughts. Cheers
 

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Two things come to mind the speed of the motorcyclist as mentioned and the backing out of a driveway.

The motorcyclist hits the car side, and because of this, initial fault could be said to be with the car and driver. If the motorcyclist had hit the rear of the car because of the angle the car was on the street, the motorcyclist would be at fault. Since this is not the case, lets stick with the car/driver being at fault initially.

However, in this situation where the motorcyclist "skids" into the right rear fender of the car, there should be a skid mark that would need to be investigated.

The speed of the motorcyclist cannot be determined until it is recreated by an investigative unit; however, through this investigation it may be determined that the motorcyclist was going in excess of the posted speed, and by how much. I would surmise that the investigative unit would recreate the scene by riding a police motorcycle on the same street at the posted speed, apply emergency braking where the skid mark starts and measure the distance required to stop. The police, being highly trained in emergency braking might give an expertise leeway/percentage and determine the probable speed of the motorcyclist.

If it was determined by the investigative unit that the motorcyclist had exceeded the posted speed limit by a significant margin, it is not out of the realm of probability that the motorcyclist would have liability as well.

Just a few thoughts. Cheers
But it would be difficult if not impossible to determine if the motorcyclist used both or just the rear brake, if it didn't have linked brakes.
 

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By legal consideration, both drivers are at fault. One for speeding, the other for improper backing. Take away either violation and the accident never happened. Even though our society doesn't require it, Karma will make you responsible for your actions.
 

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Did he hit her right side of the car as we look from across the street or the left side as viewed by the motorcyclist?:ROFL:when ever I back out with a reduced visibility I almost do that inch by inch allowing anybody planty time to avoid my car. Same in parking lots backing out.
I'd say both at fault.
A guy that I know on a BMW motorcycle hit an old lady backing out on her driveway. He said she never stopped. He is kind of ok but not 100%
 

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Personally, I would think a lot of the blame should rest on the biker. Had he been maintaining a more appropriate speed, and been better trained, he would have simply slowed and swerved around the car. No collision.
I agree. Proper emergency braking technique might have prevented this as well. I've mentioned to a lot of my riding friends that money spent on training will never go to waste, unlike insurance that you must have and hopefully never use.
 

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Personally, I would think a lot of the blame should rest on the biker. Had he been maintaining a more appropriate speed, and been better trained, he would have simply slowed and swerved around the car. No collision.



This, this is exactly how I read it also.


Ever since the Penske Semi rig took me out in 2008, I have been 100% more cautious than I ever used to be.....


I look for driveways, T-intersections off to the side of my road, and especially if shrubbery or buildings block my view of potential oncoming traffic.


I use my GPS and set a route in front of where I am going, which makes it into a rolling Road Map and I can see intersection hazards a mile in advance...


There is a county road near me, that when I approach it from the West going East, you are going up a steep hill, and the top of that hill immediately rolls off downhill at almost a 15% grade.... about 100 yards from the top, on the East side, is a 4-way county road, heavy brush growing right up to all 4 corners of it....


The last time I rode through there, a farm tractor pulled out from my right side, crossing straight across to my left side.... he was pulling a wagon loaded with hay....


IMO, he was extremely stupid to do that without having some one at the top of the hill to flag oncoming traffic. Had I been doing the 55 mph speed limit, I would have hit the tractor broadside....


But, my sonar was honking at me Big Time and I rolled off down to 30 mph at the top of the hill, and OMG look at that tractor pulling out :surprise:
 

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In the hypothetical example I say biker fault making it unreasonable for the car to judge the situation.

It's easy to avoid getting shot. Just duck when you see the bullet coming. Yeah, right.
 

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on Android phones, and maybe on iApple crap too,


there is an app .... CoPilot USA.... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alk.copilot.namarket.premiumusa


it has a feature on the paid Pro version, that will announce cross intersections in advance.
as part of that, you can have it announce an upcoming turns in increments of 1/2, 1, 2, and more miles in advance....


it was that very app that caused me to slow down for the tractor on that one hill.... at the time, I was not aware of that hill's dangerous T-crossing..... now I recognize it by sight and slow way down..
 

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Personally, I would think a lot of the blame should rest on the biker. Had he been maintaining a more appropriate speed, and been better trained, he would have simply slowed and swerved around the car. No collision.
Hypothetically I agree with you, but unless the bike rider admits to doubling the speed limit it is impossible to prove. Years ago the really happened to my neighbor. The only difference was a car in place of the motorcycle. Bellevue PD laid the blame on the driveway car and basically discounted the fact the driver on the street was speeding.

In the 50 years of off and on riding I have done, I have come to believe the motorcycles that car drivers don't see are the bike that are traveling in excess of the posted (or safe) speed limit.
 
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