Lots of unburned gas

2544 Views 24 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Wendell, Aug 30, 2005

Lard

Discussion Starter · Aug 24, 2005

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I was just turned on to this forum and have been reviewing your posts. I'm glad I found you.

I'm the new owner of an 82 GL1100 with only 7,000 miles on it. Having sat for 22 years, Cletus was in for a carb rebuild in May of this year. He has been running smoothly except for what feels like retarded acceleration when I give him gas at cruising speed. Recently I noticed a LOT of gas dripping from the weep hole in the right side exhaust. Thinking that perhaps I was not getting spark to one of the cylinders I checked, but found that I am getting spark to both No. 1 and No. 3. With the engine at idle speed I can take the spark plug wire off of the No. 1 plug and the engine continues to idle smoothly; when I disconnect any other plug wire there is an immediate change in the idle. I drained the float bowl on No. 1 and then started Cletus again with the same result. So, Cletus will still idle smoothly, has spark to all cylinders, will continue to idle smoothly even with the No. 1 plug wire pulled off the plug, and is pouring large amounts of gas into the exhaust pipe on the right side.

O.K.,friends, where do I start?

Since I'm new let me say again that I'm glad a friend sent me your way. Let me thank you in advance for your help.

Larry

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Hawker22

· #2 · Aug 24, 2005

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In this case, I think "smooth" is relative. If you have spark to no 1, then You should probably do a compression check on that cylinder, as it may have other issues like a stuck valve that got bent. This may explain why the gas is pooling out of it and also why it appears sluggish.

The guru's will tell you what to do. I am very new to Wings but I do know my way around the internal combustion engine.

Lard

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 24, 2005

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Good idea. I'll check the compression. I suppose that if a valve was just slightly bent so that it did not seat correctly that it might let the fule through even though the engine still seemed to idle smoothly. I'll check this one out.

Thanks,

Larry

exavid

· #4 · Aug 24, 2005

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:waving::waving:Welcome to the Best Goldwing Site on the Internet Larry!:waving::waving:

I think you're most likely to find one carb has a leaking float or gasket. A stuck or bent valve isn't going to cause gas to leak, the fuel air mixture isn't that rich. Pulling off one plug wire may be misleading since each ignition coil fires two plugs. Take a careful look at the spark plugs to see what their color looks like, it one is a lot blacker than the rest I'd take a close look at that carb. I'dbet that the raw gas is leaking from one of the carbs.

Lard

Discussion Starter · #5 · Aug 24, 2005

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Thanks, exavid. I've checked the plugs and the plug on No. 1 did look different than the others. If the float is stuck does that mean that it should be replaced? If so, what else in that carb should be replaced? It was rebuilt just 1,000 miles ago. I had a lot of junk in my fuel system when I bought the bike and had to clean the fuel tank, so perhaps my carbs didn't get cleaned as well as they should have during the rebuild.

Larry

Hawker22

· #6 · Aug 24, 2005

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exavid wrote:

:waving::waving:Welcome to the Best Goldwing Site on the Internet Larry!:waving::waving:

I think you're most likely to find one carb has a leaking float or gasket. A stuck or bent valve isn't going to cause gas to leak, the fuel air mixture isn't that rich. Pulling off one plug wire may be misleading since each ignition coil fires two plugs. Take a careful look at the spark plugs to see what their color looks like, it one is a lot blacker than the rest I'd take a close look at that carb. I'dbet that the raw gas is leaking from one of the carbs.

So, Paul, for my own education, are you saying thatalthough the No. 1 plug has spark, it is not firing due to it being fouled from excess gas due to a possible leaking carb? When he pulls the wire off the plug, he detects no change to therunning engine, so if that is so, it would certainly not have been running smoothly in the first place. I mentioned the valve only because a piston, along for the ride will cause less interference if the compression in its cylinder is very low. And he did say bit was running smoothly, and why I said that smooth is relative.But now, I think you are correct, and I bet that Larry hopes you are.

BTW, can you explainwhat you mean by pulling the wire off the plug being confusing due to each coil firing two plugs. To me, a pulled wire is a pulled wire. Does pulling a plug wire on these engines possibly affect the spark to the other plug from that coil?

twisty

· #7 · Aug 24, 2005

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Lard wrote:

I was just turned on to this forum and have been reviewing your posts. I'm glad I found you.

I'm the new owner of an 82 GL1100 with only 7,000 miles on it. Having sat for 22 years, Cletus was in for a carb rebuild in May of this year. He .
Since I'm new let me say again that I'm glad a friend sent me your way. Let me thank you in advance for your help.

Larry

Larry, you ask...

Has been running smoothly except for what feels like retarded acceleration when I give him gas at cruising speed. Recently I noticed a LOT of gas dripping from the weep hole in the right side exhaust. Thinking that perhaps I was not getting spark to one of the cylinders I checked, but found that I am getting spark to both No. 1 and No. 3. With the engine at idle speed I can take the spark plug wire off of the No. 1 plug and the engine continues to idle smoothly; when I disconnect any other plug wire there is an immediate change in the idle

That gas dripping from the exhaust could mean a couple of things,, first it could mean that you just have a fouled spark plug on that cylinder & it is allowing the cylinder to misfire & not burn the fuel/air that is pulled in.. (try a new spark plug first)..

Or it could mean that the carb is acting up & passing way too much fuel so it ends up too rich to burn.. (possibly check the cut-off valve in the carb as those tend to fail with age & will really richen the intake mixture at lower speeds, once the plug fouls from a rich mixture it really pumps the raw fuel through that cylinder.

When you pulled the #1 plug wire it should have also dropped out #2 cylinder as cyl 1 & 2 spark off the same coil & each use the other cylindersspark plug as a ground to operate. You should NEVER pull a plug wire on a Wing to check spark as that allows the coil to arc internally & could easily damage it, instead use a jumper wire & ground the plug on the cylinder that is being tested.

I drained the float bowl on No. 1 and then started Cletus again with the same result. So, Cletus will still idle smoothly, has spark to all cylinders, will continue to idle smoothly even with the No. 1 plug wire pulled off the plug, and is pouring large amounts of gas into the exhaust pipe on the right side.

O.K.,friends, where do I start?

Probably the place to start is to: First replace the spark plug on #1 cylinder,, thenrun itfor a few seconds & place your hand lightly (& quickly) on each exhaust pipe as it exits the cyl head, if you have a cold pipe (or cooler that the others) that cylinder isn't firing correctly.. If a new plug &good hot spark doesn't allow that cylinder to fire then do a compression test on that cylinder.. If the compression is good then look for a hanging choke (enrichener) in the carb for that cylinder,, or a failed air cut-off valve in the carb for that cylinder,, or internal carb problem on that cylinder..

If by chance you have two cold cylinder pipes then make sure those 2 spark plug wires aren't crossed..

Twisty

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Lard

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 24, 2005

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Twisty, Hawker22, and Paul........thank you very much for taking the time to share your ideas with me. Somehow I've got to find a way to get my lovely wife and the kids away from the house on Saturday so that I can devote the attention to Cletus that he so richly deserves!!

BTW, I've tried a different plug on No. 1 and still had the same problem.

Tonight I'll check compression and do the "finger to the manifold" test.

Larry

mag

· #9 · Aug 24, 2005

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Larry..when you say the bike was in for a carb rebuild, what exactly did they do? Did they put in aftermarket float valve/needle? They are known to leak. Secondly, did the bike sit at all with gas in the carbs after the carb rebuild? It only takes a few weeks for gas to gum things up again. If you have one plug looking different, then that is likely the culprit (as ignition tends to affect pairs of cylinders). How did you 'clean' your tank? You might stil have residual debris getting past the fuel filter, jamming up the float valve in carb #1. That would prevent it from seating, and shutting off fuel when the float comes up. I've been having the same problems in my bike. In my case, the float tang was set incorrectly, and the float was hanging up, not letting the needle seat to shutoff fuel flow. Most certainly, it is worth taking the carbs off if you can and checking the float assembly for proper height and operation in that carb. Ask me how later. One quick try: turn off the petcock. Drain the fuel from bowl #1. Lightly tap the carb bowl with a screwdriver handle or wooden dowel. Sometimes this frees up a stuck float. Clean up or replace that plug. Ride the bike for a bit and check it again. Catastrophic failure of your float would really only occur if it had holes in it, causing it to sink permanently.

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Lard

Discussion Starter · #10 · Aug 24, 2005

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Hey, Mike. I actually do not know exactly what was done to each carb. I know that the invoice included four carb kits at about $35 per kit, and a new accelerator pump was installed. I removed my fuel tank, twice, and used muratic acid and an abrasive to remove rust and sludge in the tank. My carbs have not sat with fule since the rebuild. I'veemptied and tapped onthe fuel bowl once but it didn't change things.

I suppose next I'll do a compression check and if that is O.K. then off come the carbs!

Thanks for your help.

Larry

Wendell

· #11 · Aug 25, 2005

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Larry, I just did a quick scan of the posts above, so if I repeat this one tip, please forgive me.

I would not run the engine for long periods with the problem you are having. When you do solve the problem, DO change your oil ASAP! That gas is washing past your piston rings, diluting the oil :X:X and that will be a big problem in a hurry! Dliluted oil and a hot engine= engine damage! Just a little suggestion to prevent further problems!

Lard

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 25, 2005

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Wendell, thank you very much for the heads up. I'm not sure I would have thought of that. I'm planning to do a compression check (don't want to purchase a guage and haven't found one to borrow yet) and if everything is O.K. then I'll remove the carbs. I definitely will change the oil and filter. Ole' Cletus isn't in any shape to ride so I won't be tempted to damage the motor. The guidance from you all in the forum has been invaluable.

Larry

Wendell

· #13 · Aug 25, 2005

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Aw Shucks, Larry.. :bowing::bowing::bowing:I am not worthy, :bowing::bowing:I am not worthy!:bowing::bowing::bowing:

Glad I could help!!:clapper:

Lard

Discussion Starter · #14 · Aug 26, 2005

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O.K. all you experts.......I'm trying to elinimate low compression on my No. 1 cylinder as a factor. Bought a compression guage yesterday and went out this morning to check on Cletus. I removed all the spark plugs; pulled out the choke; and ran the compression check on each cylinder. Each tested between 110 - 120. Knowing that this isn't right I went in and read the Honda manual and saw that I should have done the test after getting the engine to normal operating temperature. I didn't have time to reinstall plugs and run the engine before I left for work.

What can I make of these result? Back when Cletus was on the road two weeks ago he seemed to run fine (even though apparently the No. 1 cylinder was not properly combusting) and while there was smoke (or mist) from the right exhaust pipe that smelled strongly of gasoline, there was no smoke at all from the left exhaust.

I'm wondering if the consistency of the compression test, even though I did it with the engine cool, indicates that my problem is more likely to be in the carbs and not in the valves.

Larry

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twisty

· #15 · Aug 26, 2005

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Lard wrote:

O.K. all you experts.......I'm trying to elinimate low compression on my No. 1 cylinder as a factor. Bought a compression guage yesterday and went out this morning to check on Cletus. I removed all the spark plugs; pulled out the choke; and ran the compression check on each cylinder. Each tested between 110 - 120. Knowing that this isn't right I went in and read the Honda manual and saw that I should have done the test after getting the engine to normal operating temperature. I didn't have time to reinstall plugs and run the engine before I left for work.

What can I make of these result? Back when Cletus was on the road two weeks ago he seemed to run fine (even though apparently the No. 1 cylinder was not properly combusting) and while there was smoke (or mist) from the right exhaust pipe that smelled strongly of gasoline, there was no smoke at all from the left exhaust.

I'm wondering if the consistency of the compression test, even though I did it with the engine cool, indicates that my problem is more likely to be in the carbs and not in the valves.

Larry, with all cylinders at about the same compression (within 10#) that is a good sign. With ALL cylinders being a little on the low side that could mean you didn't have the throttle wide open (You need the throttle open to allow air to get in to be compressed),, or the engine being cold allowed some ring leakage,, or doing it with the choke on pulled in too much fuel & washed the oil from the cylinder walls,, or the cranking speed was slow & lowered the compression,, or your compression gage is inaccurate..

Warm the engine first, then do another test with the throttle held wide open,, if still low, try your compression gauge on another (known good) vehicle..

Twisty

Hawker22

· #16 · Aug 26, 2005

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twisty wrote:

Lard wrote:

O.K. all you experts.......I'm trying to elinimate low compression on my No. 1 cylinder as a factor. Bought a compression guage yesterday and went out this morning to check on Cletus. I removed all the spark plugs; pulled out the choke; and ran the compression check on each cylinder. Each tested between 110 - 120. Knowing that this isn't right I went in and read the Honda manual and saw that I should have done the test after getting the engine to normal operating temperature. I didn't have time to reinstall plugs and run the engine before I left for work.

What can I make of these result? Back when Cletus was on the road two weeks ago he seemed to run fine (even though apparently the No. 1 cylinder was not properly combusting) and while there was smoke (or mist) from the right exhaust pipe that smelled strongly of gasoline, there was no smoke at all from the left exhaust.

I'm wondering if the consistency of the compression test, even though I did it with the engine cool, indicates that my problem is more likely to be in the carbs and not in the valves.

Click to expand...

Larry, with all cylinders at about the same compression (within 10#) that is a good sign. With ALL cylinders being a little on the low side that could mean you didn't have the throttle wide open (You need the throttle open to allow air to get in to be compressed),, or the engine being cold allowed some ring leakage,, or doing it with the choke on pulled in too much fuel & washed the oil from the cylinder walls,, or the cranking speed was slow & lowered the compression,, or your compression gage is inaccurate..

Warm the engine first, then do another test with the throttle held wide open,, if still low, try your compression gauge on another (known good) vehicle..

Twisty

Twisty, is it feasable or even possible to do a wet compression check on these horizontal engines? We always did that on car engines to verify rings or valves-if the compression turns out to be off normal.

Lard

Discussion Starter · #17 · Aug 26, 2005

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Twisty, thanks. When I do the next compression check, do I pull out the choke as well as open the throttle?

Larry

twisty

· #18 · Aug 26, 2005

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Hawker22 wrote:

Twisty, is it feasable or even possible to do a wet compression check on these horizontal engines? We always did that on car engines to verify rings or valves-if the compression turns out to be off normal.

Hawker22, yes it's possible but takes more oil in the cylinders to follow the rings up to the top of the cylinders & seal there. Usually if a wet test is needed it really isn't needed as there is usually so much blow-by that it smokes out the crankcase vent like a steam engine.

Twisty

twisty

· #19 · Aug 26, 2005

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Lard wrote:

Twisty, thanks. When I do the next compression check, do I pull out the choke as well as open the throttle?

Larry, NO, no choke needed, as that won't any value to the test & can wash the cylinder walls of oil..

Twisty

Lard

Discussion Starter · #20 · Aug 26, 2005

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Twisty, thanks. I'm on my way home and will give er' another try.

Larry

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