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Discussion Starter #41
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Sunday 11/27/2011

I took it a little slow today, time for thought and design ideas.

After chopping of the shelter supports and cleaning off the tabs I sat down to figure out just how to mount the gas tank.

The center support tube was rather large at the neck and tapered down to a smaller size.

In order to get a good solid support tube to put down the center I decided to cut the top and sides off this center tube.



When I did this I found that the original center tube was not welded to the neck but to an outer shell which is welded at the top and bottom to the inside neck.



My idea now is to weld the new tube along this bottom tube housing and then gusset in the top pretty much like the original. I will probably wind up putting more support metal in place of the original metal because I want the neck to look smoother and more finished than the original.

I have to make sure that the height of the tank leaves enough room for the air filter.

Now on the subject of air filters, I have gone overboard and purchased a single carburetor manifold to mount on the engine going into this bike.

It uses a single VW Solex 34 PICT Carburetor, which I am familiar with already, having build a few dune buggies in the past.

This I hope this will make tuning easier + I will only need one pull cable to operate the carburetor. Time will tell.

I hope this also gives me more room above and around the engine.

Now I have to figure out just how to mount the other end of the center bar.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
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I took yesterday off, Cyber Monday and I had to Christmas shop for the wife.

After all, she's the one I can count on to hold the bars steady when I tack them and bring a fresh coffee when I am in the garage meditating on my next move. Almost anything I need that I can't do myself.

Today is Tuesday 11/29/2011



I decided to go with a Kawasaki tank I had in the Garage loft, it has some nice lines that seem to go with the frame design.



Here are a couple of views of it mocked up on the bike.



I had to put the triple tree back on (dumb) to check for gas tank clearance in the front.



I ground a slot and welded a 4 inch rod in it to accept some Honda gas tank rubbers which happen to be the same size as the Kawasaki tank mounts.



I then cut and ground a plate to replace the original front gas tank mount and tacked it in.



I tacked a flat piece of scrap to the end of the tank tube so that when the plate is level I know the tank mount rod is also level. The end of the tank tube will be cut off at an angle to mount on the flat plate.

I also welded a smaller piece of tubing that fits into the front of the tank tube and also fits into the front mounting area better.

I have been centering the tank between the fork neck and the center of the rear tire.

At this point I think I am happy with the set-up so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
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Wednesday 11/30/2011

Spent most of the day forming the rear mount for the gas tank tube.

This amounted to cutting two pieces of plate tacking them to the tank tube.

There are a lot of variables that go into clamping the tube pieces together.

The whole tube must be straight and centered, the pegs for the gas tank must be level, then the side plates must be at a 90 degree angle with the frame plate.

After about a half hour of trying to get them right and failing, I got my helper out to the garage (wife Betty) we were then able to hold all the parts on the right angles and clamp them. I then tacked the pieces to the tube only.



When I was sure everything was right I welded the top of both pieces.



I cut off the tube end on an angle and made a support plate for the front and rear of the rear section.



I cut two small pieces of plate to cover the front and rear of the pieces I tacked on. I welded the rear piece only about half way down then heated it and bent it to match the rear angles.



The bottom portion of this plate will be cut off flush and the whole rear section will be filled and ground smooth, then the unit will be ready to weld to the frame front and back. I will then weld, fill and gusset the front of the tube where it attaches to the neck.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
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Thursday 12/01/2011

I filled and ground the rear portion of the gas tank mounting tube.



"fill and grind, fill and grind"



After calling my helper (Betty) out to the garage, we got it set-up and tacked to the frame. A little light hammering brought the original "sheet metal" from the bottom leg of the frame over to match the new gas tank tube.



There is going to have to be a lot of filling done to match the top of the tube to the neck.
I will use 1/8 inch filler between the neck and tube not sheet metal like Honda uses.



I set the gas tank on and marked the rear mounting hole, drilled and tapped it to take a 8mm X 1.25 bolt. I also cut a rubber bushing I had in half to go under the gas tank mounting tab.

At this point I did notice that the clearance between the front neck and gas tank is very small, about 1/8 inch but it does clear and won't hit on tight turns.



I got out a trailer fender I had in the garage left over from a Honda 400A build.
I had to buy two at the time.)





I think there won't be too much clearance between the tire and the fender but I like the look.

The rear fender is rushing it but I had to see how it would look.
I still have to fill the neck area and gusset it in, then weld the rear of the tank tube mount in.
 

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This is looking great!:applause:
There a lot of work in this project that a welder would like.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
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Friday 12/02/2011

First step today was to fill in the area at the top of the neck with some short pieces of 1/4 inch flat stock. then clean and
smooth the welds on the neck so everything is flat to accept the plates.



I cut two plates out of 1/8th inch plate I had laying around, smoothed them and cleaned up the surface rust.



Honda uses a much thinner metal between their frame tubes, but I like a minimum of 1/8th inch just for strength.



The process is very labor intensive but it works for me in the end.



I tacked in the right side with a little bit of hammer forming then welded it solid.



This is the left side before plating it.



Left side plated and also ground for the first time.

I will grind all the welds smooth and fill the gaps again by doing more welding and grinding.
This way there will be a minimum amount of fiberglass in the finished frame.
I fill the low areas then grind so that I don't loose the strength of the original weld, it takes a while but I think it is worth it.

Even though most of the front is hidden by the gas tank I will fill and smooth it anyway. I even wound up touching up Honda's welding
on the front bottom tube or should I say lack of welding because there were open areas where they didn't weld it at all.

I will also weld and grind down the two dots where Honda spot welded an insert into the bottom tubes (see above photo).
 

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Discussion Starter #47
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Saturday 12/03/2011

Spent most of the day welding and grinding on the neck.

Nothing in pictures because I still have a lot to do,
I hope to finish the neck and tank mount today.

"Hang in there" :waiting:
 

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Discussion Starter #48
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Sunday 12/04/2011

I finished most of the filling on the neck area and ground it smooth.
Before the frame is ready for primer I will glass up all the small imperfections.

I have decided I don't like the look of the rear tank tube mount.
I haven't come up with a fix yet but I am thinking of adding a piece
of stock on an angle from the center to the out side frame to smooth it out.



more thought on that later.



I added a rear fender mount to the swing arm, then cut a slot in a block of wood
and tied it to the wheel with a pull tie so I could move the wheel around until
I got the rest of the fender to sit where I wanted it.



Now there is a choice that I am having a hard time with.



Does the fender get cut off at the pull tie (like I first thought) or some where
between where the tie is and the end?



After sitting and looking I also like the look of the longer fender.

What do you think? If the tie is in the 12 o'clock position and the end of the fender is 9 o'clock, where do you think it should be cut?

I am taking Monday off to rest up a bit, so let me know what you think.

I would also like input on the rear Tank tube mount.

:thumbsup: :thumbsdown: :waiting:

Thanks
 

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How bout maybe a "V" cut at 7:30 on rear fender? :cool:
Maybe adding sheet metal to the sides of the tank down to the frame.
Do it in card board & tape it first for a look see.
Or maybe move the top tube in if you can.
Looks a little boxy now.
Then you could wrap the seat around the tank to cover the mount.
Just some ideas, your work is great.
Wish I would get more ideas on my posts.
Some good, some go in the trash, but they all get my mine working.



The neck looks great & very good workman, it shows the detail you do.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
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Wednesday 12/07/2011

Pearl Harbor day wow 70 years ago.

Haven't posted the last few days, mainly because I haven't been in the garage.

My Neuropathy is acting up again, and my hands don't work the way they should.

I also have a friend coming over today, he broke a key off in a ignition lock and I need
to get it out for him then make a new one from code if the lock has a code on it,
otherwise I will try to make one from the broken piece.

Years ago I did locksmithing and I kept all my machines, I also added
motorcycle key blanks to my inventory and I keep up on the codes to make them.

Note always keep at least 2 keys minimum for each lock you own,
it will save you dollar$ in the long run.

Also doing a lot of thinking about the bike design.

I only received one reply to my questions for building the bike, but what a great reply.

Skip has some good ideas, I am trying to figure out if I can do them.
I have a limited amount of tools here in my shop, I am thinking about bending the bars for under the tank with my cheap pipe bender.

I think I will try to bend one and then duplicate it if I can.
I would then weld it on before cutting the frame.
I have a very crude bender so making the bends right may be a problem.

Skip, I don't understand your cutting the fender at 7:30 comment the choice is between 12:00 o'clock and 9:00 o'clock, there is no fender at 7:30 position.
I also maybe a little thick and that was a joke.

I still am looking for input as far as cutting the fender or fixing the tank area.
 

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Guess that should be at 10:30, :?
 

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Instead of fixing the frame, why not widen the tank? those upper side frame rails should be covered and the engine is wide enough to handle it esthetically... Yes, it will involve some sheet metal work..
 

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Discussion Starter #53
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Saturday 12/10/2011



Not anything to put up as far as photos.

I have doing a lot of thinking about the way the frame and rear supports for the seat and fender will go, and how to make the tank and frame section look right.


The bike is big and boxy to begin with so I have decided to leave the top outer frame as it is, also there is a upper engine mount incorporated with a heat shield and the rear upper engine mounts come off of the the rear section of the same part of the frame.



I have started to add a couple of supports that will brace the frame connecting the back wheel. when the bike hits bumps there will be a lot of pressure on that section being a hard tail.


I am still working on the way to smooth out the rear of the tank area.


It is going to be a challenge to make a rear fender and seat mount that will support and still not add any more to the boxy frame than I have to.


This is the hardest build I have ever done, I can't believe how thin the frame is in spots.
I have had to fix spots where the welds have burned through the frame even on a lower setting on the welder.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
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Just spent the day figuring out the seat and fender mounts.

I drilled a piece of round stock to fit inside the seat mounting bracket and tacked it to the up right.



I now have an idea of where the seat will mount.

I tacked a piece of tubing along the tire line to the frame this is going to be the support for the swing arm tube also.

The problem is this tube may be blocking the area where the battery goes so I may modify it later. Right now it serves as a straight line for mounting the fender, it also needs to be shortened later after I get the left side done.

This is going to be a tank by the time I am done, but at least I will be able to touch the ground.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
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Wednesday 12/14/2011

Some explanation today, I have been working in the garage
but to this point I have not known what to report.

I first put a seat and rear fender brace tubing, from the plate above
the point where the rear swing arm mounts, going straight back next to the fender.

After tacking this in I realized that it would get in the way of the
battery mounting.

I had to cut and grind it out, and review again how this
mounting could be changed.



First I got the size of the Battery then I built a Battery Box.
Above picture is what I came up with.

I still have to make the brackets for it and also a hold down
system for the battery.

I decided to make an upright for the rear to serve as a fender mount
and also a brace for the swing arm.







I built the bottom from two pieces of 1 inch channel cut on an
angle to fit the mounting bracket at the rear wheel.



I put a piece of solid round stock in between the pieces of channel
and then added a piece of tubing over the round stock.

I ground all of the pieces so that they look like one piece of stock
that goes from square to round tube.



The tube is on an angle, but looks straight in the picture.

I then attached a short piece of 2 X 4 to the rear tire and
leaned the tubing against it.

This will give me the angle I need to get both sides to wind up the
same distance from the fender.

I set the tubing at a 90 degree angle to the ground, this way I will be
able to duplicate the angles on the other side even though they are
different lengths away from the rear wheel.

Remember that the two sides of the frame are at different distances and
angles all over the bike.

This is what makes this build so complicated.

I am sorry if I am confusing you, this is the best way
I know to explain what I have done.

When I do the other side you might be able to see it more clearly.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
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Saturday 12/17/2011

No post yesterday because my sister Pat and I took bags of presents (really necessities) out to the local Canandaigua NY VA Hospital.
If you want to do something good for the holidays or actually any time donate to the vets at your local VA hospital they need the help.

I started out today by finishing the right side base for the upright.




Getting the upright square with the frame and left side was quite a job. Betty came out to the garage and helped with the lining up of all the pieces.




Without a frame jig I have to really think out of the box. I first ground the base so that it basically fit the frame, then I took a tape measure from the neck to a cross piece of angle iron clamped to the left side which I mounted two days ago.

I put a magnetic level on the cross piece then clamped the right side to it. By having the right side upright at a 90 degree angle, the cross piece at a 90 degree also and measuring from the neck to the cross piece on both sides I figured that everything was square. After tacking I checked everything again and all was well in my world.






I then cut a piece of tube to go between the upright and the Cross plate located between where the swing arm mounts and I tacked that in. I still have to cut the uprights to length and make the rear fender mount. I bolted the fender to the temporary mount on the swing arm to get an idea for mounting the rear fender mount to the uprights.




I also got an old tail light out of stock and set it on the fender to see what that would look like. I am debating on welding the mount to the fender because the tail light can be removed from the mount and so can the license plate mount. If I weld it, I will also paint the mount along with the fender and leave the tail light chrome.



With the tail light set on the fender it makes it easier to figure out where to cut the fender.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
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Sunday 12/18/2011

Started today by making the support tube to go on the right side from the plate to the swing arm upright.



The process of making the sides to come out the same even though the original frame tubes are
different make this the hardest frame rebuild I have ever tackled. Every tube is different so I can't make one tube then make another one to match it.

I cut down the uprights by installing the fender where it is to go, then put a level across the fender and making a mark on the tubes.
I then took hose clamps and installed them at the marks. when the clamps are tightened down they give me a line all the way around the tubes so I can cut them squarely across the tube.

This is a good way to cut a pipe at a 90 degree angle with a small grinder, just make a mark then put a hose clamp at the mark it gives you a perfect line to cut on.



I next made a couple of plugs to fit into the tops of the uprights, drilled and tapped to fit a 8mm X 125 bolt thread.

I welded them inside the uprights. I may make some kind of fancy top to go on them later.



The fender was installed on the temporary bracket on the swing arm and I blocked it up on the tire. The job now is to get the fender straight and centered just where I want it to be.

I cut a piece of flat stock and drilled holes for the uprights
Then bolted them down to the uprights.



I just noticed how this picture makes the rear tire look off center, it's not, but I will
double check everything when I get back to the garage in a couple of days.

I now need to get a center line to the fender brace I made.
I will use this to make the actual brace I want to use.
I am still thinking about the mounting of the fender and seat.
I an also debating if some small saddle bags might be good on this tank of mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
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12/21/2011

With the holidays drawing near I find myself having less time to
work on the bike, this will change the day after Christmas because
Betty is going to Virginia to visit her daughters.

I am staying home this time and being by myself there should be a
lot of time to work in the garage.

I double checked, and everything so far is square, it was the picture
that made the rear look off set.



I decided to build a better fender brace and I remembered that I had
a Honda topper from one of the sissy bars I have. I welded up a 1/2 inch
square bar so that I could mount the topper on it. It is also much better
for support for the rear fender.





I also dug out a set of old saddle bags that I am thinking about
mounting on the rear of the bike. I am still working that out in my mind.

Everyone is busy near Christmas so I am having a bunch of family over
tomorrow (Friday 12/23/2011) so no garage tomorrow or until the day after
Christmas.

Everyone have a great Holiday, and I will continue on Monday, the day after
Christmas.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
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Monday 12/26/2011

I am back to the garage after the holidays, it feels good to get back to work.
I had a great day today, starting a couple of hours early and putting in about 10 hours today.

I started by cleaning the front fork lowers with a wire brush, you may
remember that this was the bike that got too near a fire before I got it.



The ugly color won't come off the forks, but the lowers will be able to be painted after I rebuild them.

I purchased 2 Shock-mate # SA1997 boots that are meant to go over steering
assemblies for some kind of car.
They look like they will cover the front forks where they are discolored.
I am saving them until the final assembly of the bike.

I put the front end back on to get an idea of how the bike is going to sit.



Next I tacked a flat piece of plate onto the fender mount and mounted the
tail light frame to the fender.

The tape is about the line I will use when I cut the rear fender off.

I still have to cut the plate down to the out line of the tail light front bolt mount.



Next was the battery box it is very close to the master cylinder so I remounted
the cylinder to make sure the two pieces won't hit each other.
Also I need enough room to get at the brake line going into the cylinder.

I put a couple of pieces of board under it resting on the swing arm and the height
comes out pretty good.
Now I have to make the mount for it, I would like to have it bolted in.



In order to get the seat right I built a dummy battery out of some pieces of 2X4
wood I had around. I cut them to the size of a battery so I know how much room
I have to work with.

Would you believe I bought 7 Goldwings and not one of them had a battery in it,
even a bad one would have worked to check the clearance.





The next project was to mount up the seat to see how that fit with the
battery box under it.
I decided to go with the hair pin springs for the seat.



I just laid a piece of flat stock across the back frame to get an idea of how
high the seat would be.



OH BOY - -:congrats: - I can touch flat footed even without lowering the front end.

:applause:
 
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