[kd7sys]

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Hello everyone,

I was replacingthe regulator/rectifier on my bike and noticed the part shown in the picture has suffered some heat exposure. Hot enough to melt some of the insulation on the wires that enter the part. I did not see any exposed coper and the bike runs good. This is located under the left pod between the flasher and a relay. My book shows a picture of it but no description.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

 

[Silicon Sam]

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There are two of them on your bike, and they are called Spark
Units. They should be mounted back to back. It is a fairly
common failure item on this bike. Assuming it's the GL1100 in
your tagline. If you unbolt the spark units, you'll see some tar
like substance which sometimes gets melted out out the units from the
backside.

Raymond

 

[kd7sys]

imported post

That sounds like the part. So is the melted tar the sign of failure or a need for replacement? Or should I wait for other problems?

Thanks for your reply,

Chris

 

[Silicon Sam]

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May as well look for replacements now. I have some melted
ones as well, but they do work. But I wouldn't want to be 500
miles from home at 3am and have the spark units decide to not spark
anymore.

Just look on ebay and such, just make sure they have a flat
backside, and no drippings. I'll try and post a picture of a good
one and a bad one later.

Raymond

 

[GWEddie]

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Raymond is right, no harm in having a couple of standby units just in case you need them.

 

[Frenchy]

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Ifthe CDI units aremelting in the back, you need to replace them as soon as possible. They're melting because they're drawing too much current. It might be a while before they fail, but then again they could damage something else when they do!

I've got some, PM meif'n you're interested.

 

[Ranamadad]

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Hey, Chris

I'm not in Dallas, Oregon, but pretty close to Dallas, Texas. I also have an 1981 GL1100 with a spark unit in similar or worse condition than yours. Have you been able to replace them or it since you posted in June? If so, where? I'm having a heck of a time locating replacements.

 

[exavid]

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How about these? Depending on the year of your 1100 it might have either the single spark unit that drives both coils or the two separate units. Either set up will work.

Spark Units

 

[ARKnapp]

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Both spark units on my 1980 GL 1100 began to fry and the tar was puddling on the bike just below their mounted location. I let them cool. The bike would start no problem and within minutes the units were hot again. In my case I simply pulled them out cleaned their mounting, cleaned all connectors by brake fluid and putting the connectors together multiple times, reassembled and started the bike. In the few minutes that they would over heat they were still cool, so out on the road and with the false tank in the open position kept feeling for heat. Nothing hot in the CDI department. Have been working ever since. So before spending your hard earned money try cleaning the wires and connections related to the reg, CDI, coil, etc. Actually in my case all joints were done.

By the way if anyone has failed units, if you send them to meI would love to open them up and rebuild them. I will have to heat them up to remove the tar, but I know there is almost nothing in them, yet without them, there is no ignition. Capacitor, inductor etc. But it will take destroying one to get into them to take samples. IO guess that the actual components would come to a few bucks. But I have not any to pull apart. If interested send me a note.

Al

 

[teacher]

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exavid wrote:

How about these? Depending on the year of your 1100 it might have either the single spark unit that drives both coils or the two separate units. Either set up will work.

Spark Units

hey exavid, my wing at some point in time must have had those units because when I got the bike they were in a parts box. What is on my bike (must have been put on by the PO) are 2 rectangle boxes (plastic) each about 2" wide x 3 1/2" high x 1" deep These could be a newer version and may be easer to locate.

 

[Ranamadad]

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I pulled both of my Spark Units completely off and compared them pin for pin with each other. Both units have melted tar, but I noticed that all combinations of pins, (testing for resistance/impedence and for possible semiconductor junctions), matched the other Unit quite nicely. This leads me to believe that these units had to either fail in the exact same way, or they are really fine.

I checked the CDI pickup coils and they match at approx 570 ohms each, which Clymer says is nominal. Again, they are close to each other, so I can tend to think they are okay also. I will need to check for unhindered vacuum advance movement. Do I really have to pull the back wheel off to do that?:X

I will do the cleaning routine ARKnapp suggested as I get the rest of the ignition system analyzed.

--- to Teacher, do your plastic boxes have any identifying marks on them?

 

[teacher]

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Ranamadad wrote:

--- to Teacher, do your plastic boxes have any identifying marks on them?

I'll remove the seat and the false tank this am, get some pictures, and post! Surely some else that owns an 1100 has this type of spark unit? The last time I looked at them I don't remember any writing on them, but I just can't remember.

 

[teacher]

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Here is a picture of the spark units (2) that are on my '81' GL1100. On the top one it reads: IC IGNITOR
TIC12-04
MBO201
Hita..hi. .... Tokyo Japan

The red one reads: ID NIPPONDENSO, 131100-3490,12V MBI, Japan

 

[ARKnapp]

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As per Haynes the manufacturer of the CDI, Ignition amplfier spark unit for 1980, 1100 was OKI # MPS 200. With8 wire connector plugs but unknown as to how many wires used. As per Clymer same thing plus added diagram.

Your pictureindicates that the unit is an Integrated Circuit and if this is the case, this newer unit would be the same electrically and if it is, should be superior, but be sure to keep contacts clean. Can you find out if this IC is still available. If it is I will not bother making new ones, from old ones.

From Clymer the spark unit is a very basic controller: It feeds the pulses to the ignition coils, takes power from the battery and must turn on/off when needed. The battery source is in series with the keyed ignition switch and the kill switch, so if both are left on the spark unit stays powered and does not pulse energy out. Thus depending at what time in the cycle, ie if the coils are energized and the bike is not running the spark unit will heat up as will the coils over time, but as long as the energy is pulsed there will be both on/off times and cooling will be available in the off cycle. This said the insides need a pulse on/off so transistor(s) along side of the Pulser Generator. The amplifier would come from the induction pulses on the generator. The coils will work on an input signal to stop to an output signal so the field(s) are created when turned on and again when turned off. The 1982 and on have an external resistor, powering the coils. Value is unknown.

 

[twisty]

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Al, if those black boxes don't have any internal spark advance I wonder why you couldn't just use an older G.M. 4-pin electronic ign module?

I have used that type of module to install electronic ignition on old antique engines, old tractors, even an old 11 HP cast iron engine cement mixer..

The 4-pin G.M. module can be triggered by any variable reluctor (sign wave), but not points, or an amplified square wav .

Most OEM type 4-pin modules will handle about 4 amps from the coil & some high end after market modules will handle up to 5.5 amps of coil current (that's a lot)..

Module wires up >>> Terminal "C" to coil (-),,,, Terminal "B" to ign12V power & coil's (+),,,, Terminal "W" to reluctor (+) ,,,, Terminal "G" to reluctor (-),,,,Module"base" to ground (that is path to complete circuit of coil (-) to ground on trigger)..

The beauty of those old G.M. 4-pin modules is they have no internal advance so just function as a high current switch triggered by a reluctor.. I can't remember if the module triggers on the raise or fall of the sign wave but I have that data around here somewhere.. If the module triggers on the same part of the sign as the stock black box it should just be a simple wire in.. If the trigger point is different then either the pulse coil would have to be re-timed or the signal conditioned to be reversed..

Those modules are cheap ($12.00-$15.00) at discount parts stores & pretty darn hardy..

Twisty

 

[ARKnapp]

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Twisty, I do agree. Space may be the limiting factor as to why Mother Honda could not use a magnetic pick up of greater capacity or the tech of the era, but it may also be the speed rotational effect of the pick up device. Since they decided to amplify the signal the source for Honda does not need to be a sine wave and the output is fixed simply because they have tarred the whole thing up. Was this high tech back then? A proprietary part that helps the bottom line. I would love to get a hold of one or two of these devices and melt out the tar and reverse engineer it. This would simply save a lot of time. I may try to pick up a GM module, and exchange my originals and see what happens. Honda injects a voltage at their design level and a timed pulse to the coils, the other thing I could do when it warms up is put my scope on the devices and see the voltage, wave and time elements and reverse engineer it that way. I have now almost completed 2 days out in a cold garage working on my 9 year old QX4. I hate the cold now more so than at any other time in my life. It takes me so dam long to do anything when I am uncomfortable and all the while the old 80 1100 is sitting wrapped up behind me. Hell when I was 25 I should have had it so good.

The engineers at Nissan must have heard me swearing at them tonight. #6 cylinder is blind at the fire wall and almost impossible to get at. It took 2 hours just to pull that plug, since I have to build a platform on the engine to spread out on and feel for the target. And to boot carpal tunnel in both hands so tactile feed back is so delayed I have no clue what I am actually hitting, on top of this add a mirror for some vision. I still love a horizontally opposed bike or a 4-6 inline sitting with a yard of space each side of the engine.

 

[Ranamadad]

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I tested any number of pin combinations on my MPS200 units, (as I was comparing them to each other), with a diode checker as well as resistance. None of the combinations I tried yielded a PN junction result, which I'd expect for a diode or transistor. Does anyone know for sure if a semiconductor device in actually in the MPS200?

Also, perhaps the resistor was added in line for the 1982- models so that a load would always be present in series with the coils. That would add to the life of these babies if unabated current flow was heating them up too much.

 

[litfuse]

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I had a problem with my 81gl1100 I earlier this summer.Rode bike to work and it was running great.When I started home for lunch,bike started back fireing and running bad.Parked it till I had the time to work on it.

Found that the epoxy in the ignitors had melted ,the voltage regulator was super hot after only a couple of minutes. Checked all electrical parts on my bike. All connectors were clean and still sealed with diaelectric grease as I had done all of them on my first tear down.

Found that voltage regulator was bad.It was putting out too much current and over chargeing the battery. Fuel and temp guage was not working either. Plus Iwas going throught a lot of signal light bulbs. Started to checking over the wireing harness in the box behind the fairing weight and found a gray wire plugged into a green wire{took me four days to work up the courage to unplug it}. Gray wireing in signal/instrument, green wire is a direct ground.Gray wire was carrying a full 12 volt load.

Now my guages worked,and new voltage regulator was cool to the touch. I had relaced the seven volt regulator behind the guages trying to get the guages to work without any luck.

If you can reverse engineer that ignitors send me an e-mail at [email protected] I am still looking for an extra set .I have a set that I was burned on in a purchase on e-bay that I can send you.

Keep it vertical.

 

[ARKnapp]

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The CDI contains 3 transistors, pu resistors, diodes, zener, but I do not know the values, can only guess at this point. Any failed units I would like to pull apart.

 

[twisty]

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ARKnapp wrote:

The CDI contains 3 transistors, pu resistors, diodes, zener, but I do not know the values, can only guess at this point. Any failed units I would like to pull apart.

Al, if that thing is a true CDI it should also have a small capacitor in the DC circuit have some sort of a large chargeable capacitor in the output circuit..

Twisty