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My 1985 gl 1200 ltd Has 100000 km complete tune up including throttle valve synchro is done. Last summer while riding in heavy rain it started to doas followand ever since withthe engine warm on cruising speed it does just like missfire.

let say i`m aiming for a speed of 100 km/h, it run's well untill i reach the desired speed and then it misses a lot, if i twist the fuel it takes off like new, until i reach cruising speed again and it does it again, and if I keep the fuel at the same position while missing, it will run likeon 2 cyl,(lack of power) until i change the position of it (throttle)and it's fine until again i reach cruise speed.

comment from buddy's behind i stink gas while loosing speed

from my auto mechanic experience I tend to go toward (tps) throttle position sensor this part is no longer available from honda can not find it used. a Bykeshop nearby told my he can rebuilt them for $500.00 CDN he said he is not sure 100% it will fix it .

now before i spend this kind of money on this i would like to know if any body else in this wonderful world has experienced my broblem .......thank........
 

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Bonjour dj norm, beofre you spend $500. rebuilding the TPS you may want to investigate adapting a TPS from a G.M. car. A lot cheaper and much more readily available. Just make sure that the TPS you buy is the full sweep type and not the on/off type otherwise it won't work.

You can check the TPS yourself by using an Ohm meter and finding the 2 wires that show continuity. Once you find those 2 wires slowly open the throttle and watch the needle on the ohm meter sweep up and down smoothly if the meter is analog, if the meter is digital watch the numbers climb and fall smoothly as you open and close the throttle. If it responds smoothly the TPS is fine.

Also check the ignition system for leaks and make sure the drain holes, by the spark plugs, in the cylinder heads are clean and open other wise water accumulates in the spark plug well and shorts out the spark. Check the resistance of your spark plug caps because these will sometimes cause the same condition you've experienced. Also be sure that the spark plug wires are securely fastened into the coils and that the coils are not cracked or leaking voltage to ground.

I kind of feel that the spark plug resistor caps are the problem but you'll have to check them to be sure.

Vic
 

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thnk 4 the reply

i will doe lots of check this spring. Would u have any idiea of wich gm tps is similar and do u know any way of checking coils other than pulling them out and visual inspection thnks....
 

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Check the connectors of sensors for corrosion. Water may have corroded a critical sensor connector like the cam sensors, tps, etc. Check the ECU led's under seat first, tho. Read the info on this site, too http://www.intouchmail.net/~fmattox/limited/manual.htmlDoesn't sound like a fuel problem, or it wouldn't respont instantly, like it does. Does it run faster than normal when first started? Then start returning to idle as it warms up?And, probably no fuel light lit, right? Let us know. Again, look at the led's, first. Concentrate on the map sensors connectors, for sure. Also, check the vacuum hoses going to the map sensors. A Mity-Vac is sure handy here. Good luck, Bob
 

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oops, I meant under travel trunk for ECU led's
 

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What about the pule sensors under the timing belt covers? One of them could be on the way out if two cylinders are dying while riding.
 

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dj norm wrote:
My 1985 gl 1200 ltd Has 100000 km complete tune up including throttle valve synchro is done. Last summer while riding in heavy rain it started to doas followand ever since withthe engine warm on cruising speed it does just like missfire.

let say i`m aiming for a speed of 100 km/h, it run's well untill i reach the desired speed and then it misses a lot, if i twist the fuel it takes off like new, until i reach cruising speed again and it does it again, and if I keep the fuel at the same position while missing, it will run likeon 2 cyl, (lack of power) until i change the position of it (throttle)and it's fine until again i reach cruise speed.

comment from buddy's behind i stink gas while loosing speed

from my auto mechanic experience I tend to go toward (tps) throttle position sensor this part is no longer available from honda can not find it used. a Bykeshop nearby told my he can rebuilt them for $500.00 CDN he said he is not sure 100% it will fix it .

now before i spend this kind of money on this i would like to know if any body else in this wonderful world has experienced my broblem .......thank........
dj norm, you are pretty well covered by the above posts. I will just add a little more.
Where your problem is occurring (as the throttle is held still & the engine load & road speed settles to cruise mode) is where you need a good spark as the spark is advanced significantly for fuel economy & the fuel table is leaned out for cruise economy.

You should rig up a low impedance (digital) voltmeter with a couple of long test leads so you can do some monitoring as you ride.

First, verify your plug wires, resistors, & spark plugs are in good shape.

Then install your test voltmeter (use the 20 volt DC scale) on the power wires to your coils (do one at a time). This is to make sure your coil supply voltage is high enough to produce a good spark. (Low voltage to your coils could easily cause your problem)

Next, install your voltmeter between the green wire & ground (5 volt scale) at the TPS sensor (leave the sensor hooked up, just monitor the voltage on the green wire to ground. That should sweep smoothly as you operate the hand throttle while riding. If there are holes or jumps in the voltage reading you have either a failing sensor, or a 5 volt supply problem going to the sensor, or a failing ground return wire leading from the sensor to the ECU (ECM).

It probably wouldn't hurt to check the air intake temp sensor at the air cleaner as an incorrect reading there could easily cause a lean or rich condition at light cruise speed.

Other things that could effect your cruise fuel& sparkare: a failing cam sensor(s) as the injection system needs to know cam position for correct fuel & spark timing selection.

The MAP sensor could also have an effect on the light throttle cruise fuel & spark so check that also.

While I haven't ever installed a GM TPS sensor on a GoldWing I am very familiar with the GM/Delco system as I have workedon the early development of that system since the mid 70's. My guess would be that an early 80's 2.5 liter ( iron duke) A or X body TPS sensor would work great as long as it could be modified to fit the attachment area. That TPS uses the same values as the production GoldWing system.

Twisty
 

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Oregonwinger wrote:
Check the connectors of sensors for corrosion. Water may have corroded a critical sensor connector like the cam sensors, tps, etc. Check the ECU led's under seat first, tho. Read the info on this site, too http://www.intouchmail.net/~fmattox/limited/manual.htmlDoesn't sound like a fuel problem, or it wouldn't respont instantly, like it does. Does it run faster than normal when first started? Then start returning to idle as it warms up?And, probably no fuel light lit, right? Let us know. Again, look at the led's, first. Concentrate on the map sensors connectors, for sure. Also, check the vacuum hoses going to the map sensors. A Mity-Vac is sure handy here. Good luck, Bob
thnks Bob, what i remember is that it started normal it does it normal cycle 1200 rpm and then it goes down to 900 rpm but after a short ride or very warm it goes up to sometime 1300 rpm idle,without missfire only when it cuises or sometime on take off. also no light lite. As far as the hoses and map i will look at them asap it is possible i puulled the engine 1000 km before the ride last summer to replace stator.......thnks again
 

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:
Bonjour dj norm, beofre you spend $500. rebuilding the TPS you may want to investigate adapting a TPS from a G.M. car. A lot cheaper and much more readily available. Just make sure that the TPS you buy is the full sweep type and not the on/off type otherwise it won't work.

You can check the TPS yourself by using an Ohm meter and finding the 2 wires that show continuity. Once you find those 2 wires slowly open the throttle and watch the needle on the ohm meter sweep up and down smoothly if the meter is analog, if the meter is digital watch the numbers climb and fall smoothly as you open and close the throttle. If it responds smoothly the TPS is fine.

Also check the ignition system for leaks and make sure the drain holes, by the spark plugs, in the cylinder heads are clean and open other wise water accumulates in the spark plug well and shorts out the spark. Check the resistance of your spark plug caps because these will sometimes cause the same condition you've experienced. Also be sure that the spark plug wires are securely fastened into the coils and that the coils are not cracked or leaking voltage to ground.

I kind of feel that the spark plug resistor caps are the problem but you'll have to check them to be sure.

Vic
thnk 4 the reply vic

i will do lots of check this spring. Would u have any idiea of wich gm tps is similar and do u know any way of checking coils other than pulling them out and visual inspection thnks....
 

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Hi dj norm, bear in mind that you will not find a direct replacement for the Honda TPS, but, this one here: http://www.ctscorp.com/automotive/datasheets/510.pdfwould appear to be a good choice. You will have to fabricate the shaft and mounting plate and locate a pigtail, but, once you have it in place you can very easily obtain another TPS for low dollars instead of being stuck like you would be with the stock Honda replacement TPS.Have a look at the lower right of this .PDF file and you'll see phone numbers for more info if needed.

As our bikes get older and parts are getting more and more scarce we will have to adapt components in this manner, but, in doing so we will actually make our Wings better than new because we'll be installing up to date technology while blending in old fashionedlong lifeand durability. Currently, I'm working on adapting the Ford EDIS system to my GL1200 which will allow me to tune ignition timing via a laptop computer. This will allow for turcharging and a low dollar EFI systems which will make our 20 year old 4 cylinder Wings very current in technology and performance. I love playing with this kind of stuff and owning a new Wing, although very nice ifI had the extra money, would hinder my ability to tinker with the engine.

There has been lots of good tech info in this post so I hope you can get your LTD running tops again by following the test procedures mentioned here. If not, I'm sure that any and all these guys would be more than happy to help you investigate further if you give us step by step feedback on what you are doing as you go along.

I still can't believe that someone was going to charge you $500. for a TPS.That really is outrageous in my opinion. You could easily buy steaks and beer for all of us for that kind of money and we'd have a great party while we were fixing your bike. LOL

Vic
 

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If it comes to The TPS, I'll try to send you 2 PDF's. I'll sent them to you, too, Vic Like Vic, 500.00 !?!?!? insane. There's supposed to be a mid 80's Honda car tps that will work, but haven't found one yet. Checked the junk yds., and auto parts stores.
 

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I re-read your last post. You had the stator thing, too. What a screw-up on Honda's part! I've had my engine out twice, and both times, I did the little stupid things, like splitting vacuum hose, re-routing a wire wrong, so the right valve cover is very hard to get back on, etc. It'll probably turn out to be something simple, tho. I kinda doubt it's the TPS, as they wore out the most in the first part of the arc range, therefore giving the most trouble off idle. My TPS has 85k miles, and no sign of a problem. Very smooth. I have another one that has over 100k miles, and it checks out good. They're pretty well sealed, so I doubt that it's dirty, either. With the key on, but not running, twist the throttle a few degrees quickly, and listen to injectors. If the TPS is working, you'll hear a click(s). Turn key off, turn throttle to quarter point, hold it there, turn key on, now quickly twist further, should click again.The bike will actually run with the TPS disconnected, but won't rev upquickly at all. You can kinda think of the TPS as an accelerator, that's mainly what it's for, to tell the ECU that you are reving quickly. Also, another trick is to swap the map sensor connectors, and if there is a problem with one of them, the problem will swap to the other side. Like I say, a cheap Mity-Vac is indespensable . You can actually check the map's with it running, apply various vacuums, and it should cause various engine running conditions, hard to explain, but eventually you would get the feel for it. You can also theck the voltage out-put of the map's. Should vary as you pump the Mity-Vac. The variable voltage has to, of course, get to the ecu, so right at the ecu is the best place to check these voltages, and if you end up checking the TPS voltage output, check that there, too. Try not to pierce the wires to do tests. Take the ecu connector apart, and do it there. You can pull the seat, unbolt the ecu, undo the wiring clips, etc, and get the ecu up on top of the fender, to do the checking. Not all that bad. Oh, and look carefully at the ecu connector. Hopefully it isn't corroded. Gotta be careful with (people) caused shorts, I wrap my vom test lead tip with scotch tape, 2-3 layers, right up to the tip to reduce that posibility. Good luck, and let us know. Bob
 

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:
Hi dj norm, bear in mind that you will not find a direct replacement for the Honda TPS, but, this one here: http://www.ctscorp.com/automotive/datasheets/510.pdfwould appear to be a good choice. You will have to fabricate the shaft and mounting plate and locate a pigtail, but, once you have it in place you can very easily obtain another TPS for low dollars instead of being stuck like you would be with the stock Honda replacement TPS.Have a look at the lower right of this .PDF file and you'll see phone numbers for more info if needed.

As our bikes get older and parts are getting more and more scarce we will have to adapt components in this manner, but, in doing so we will actually make our Wings better than new because we'll be installing up to date technology while blending in old fashionedlong lifeand durability. Currently, I'm working on adapting the Ford EDIS system to my GL1200 which will allow me to tune ignition timing via a laptop computer. This will allow for turcharging and a low dollar EFI systems which will make our 20 year old 4 cylinder Wings very current in technology and performance. I love playing with this kind of stuff and owning a new Wing, although very nice ifI had the extra money, would hinder my ability to tinker with the engine.

There has been lots of good tech info in this post so I hope you can get your LTD running tops again by following the test procedures mentioned here. If not, I'm sure that any and all these guys would be more than happy to help you investigate further if you give us step by step feedback on what you are doing as you go along.

I still can't believe that someone was going to charge you $500. for a TPS.That really is outrageous in my opinion. You could easily buy steaks and beer for all of us for that kind of money and we'd have a great party while we were fixing your bike. LOL
Vic, that TPS shown in the .PDF seems to be 1.2K. I don't have a manual handy but seem to recall the OEM Wing TPS is around 4K to 6K. Again I'm relying on memory but it the total resistance is that much different the throttle voltage gain per degree of rotation will be way off.

Twisty
 

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Oh, and one other thing. The no 1 problem, aside from weather caused (water) problems, is the crank position sensor. LTD has one, SEi has 2. Haven't quite come to a conclusion why. Anybody know? Maybe a back-up/failsafe thing?
 

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Oregonwinger wrote:
BTW, chk this out, for TPSLooks like they have it!



Oregonwingeri did looked and send an email to them to know if it still available ...... (crossed my fingers)

DJ Norm.....
 

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Let us know, will you?
 
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