[Stinky151]

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Okay, so here we go.

I finally got my new starter in, turned the bike over once or twice (battery was quite low..a new gel battery, I might add) and then I just get this squealing noise. Feeling the starter, it is spinning, but very slowly. If I take it out of the bike and jump leads to it directly, it spins quite well. Not super fast, but pretty good, smooth. Once it goes back in the bike, it just squeals. I cannot help but feel this goes right back to that chain and sprocket. It looks to be almost a 1/4 inch too high. When the start goes in, it goes in at an angle with some physical persuasion, then eventually levels out. Could that chain somehow have gotten off the stator? What am I missing here? Even jumping my car battery straight to the starter, it will not spin, like something s putting a major strain on it.

Anyone have any guesses here?

 

[DaveO430]

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I would think it would be impossible to get the starter in with the chain out of place or not in the sprocket. Have you tried to turn the engine by hand with the bolt at the rear of the stator?

 

[Stinky151]

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yup, turns just fine. In fact, it seems to change the tension in the chain. I can push start and ride the bike just fine, but it gets a little old.

 

[DaveO430]

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Weird, did you have the sprocket out and possibly put it in backward?

 

[Stinky151]

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Yeah, had the sprocket out. The collar goes towards the starter and the flat side towards the back of the bike, right?

 

[DaveO430]

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Man, sorry I don't remember, it's been a while but maybe someone will come along that knows for sure. It would be somewhere in a previous thread but there's been so many it would take forever to find it. The service manual doesn't say but the picture shows it with the collar toward the starter.

 

[The New Owner]

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Yes, the collar towards starter (by the manual picture). Did you try to remove the the plugs and then crank the engine (by starter)? If it willcrank then probably nothing is stuck. Maybe something wrong with the starter? You said it was new, but maybe something is wrong anyway....if the problem continuesI would open it and check it up. Particulary check the brushes, if they are too tight (being too long or something) then they could make a big balast to the starter. Well, as it is new, it should be OK but....everything is possible!

 

[Stinky151]

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The thing that gets me is that when it is out, it turns just fine. That is what has me thinking something is putting tension in the shaft.

 

[The New Owner]

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Be careful, I remember I read somewhere that it's not recommendedto run the starter with no load on it. I don'tknow why, but the people who said that probably do. However, I didn't know that when I had my starter off so I ran it quite a bit, honestly nothing wrong happened to it but....

If the starter runs fine with no load that doesn't alwayshave to mean that it's OK. You can never be sure before you put the load on it. Many things like a bad contact, damaged insulation (shorted somewhere), too much internalmechanical resistance, etc.can cause the starter not to run when loaded,though it could still run when no load. If you remove the plugsand then hit the start button and if the starter then cranks freely, thenprobably nothing wrong with the engine side.

 

[DaveO430]

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Have you tried putting the old starter back in to see if it goes in straight and easily? I would try it without the o-ring just for checking purposes. Have you tried reaching in and turning the chain? It should turn one way easily.

 

[bailbob]

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Hi,
I know its frustrating, but you will get it. You did not say if after the battery was low if you recharged it, I know I went thru 2 new starters and thought all were not the problem but they were as I finally got the third and its working great so far, you might want to check how much amps its pulling under load my 2nd starter had a dead short inside somewere (did not take it apart as it was under warranty) wish I could give you some better advice but the people on this forum will help you figure it out>
Good luck

 

[Stinky151]

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Well, I took apart my new starter, which was dumb, so the warranty is toast. Not as dumb as me burning it up like I did though (don't ask) It takes a freaking month to get anything over here though so I wanted to find out what was going on. It is a brand new battery, bought it today. How hard should this thing spin if it is out of the bike? something is not right here, I just can not figure out for the life of me where the problem is.

 

[Richardrwg]

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Stinky151, LOL, I just addressed my experience with this problemin another thread, so I copy and pasted it into this one as well.

I had the same problem with my bike, also an 1100. I went through 2 starters before I found the problem.

Before you do anything else, pull the starter back out of the bike. Remove the three long bolts and pull the the nose peice off of the main starter casing. When you pull it apart hold it with the nose peice down so the planetary gears do not fall out. Set the main casing down and inspect the planetary gears. What I want you to do is turn the outside gear, note if the outer ring gear is metal or plastic and observe to see if the gears are turning freely. You may very possibly find that there is a point where they just stop like they're stuck. If this is the case, check the ring gear. There is a small key on the nose peice that fits into a notch on the ring gear and keeps it in place. If the gear is plastic, the gear may have jumped and the key is no longer in the notch and it is causing just enough of a flat spot to jam the gears and not allowing the starter to do it's job. This is what happened to mine.

What I did was take apart the old starter, put the old nose peice which had a metal gear onto the new casing put it together and re-installed it. I never had a problem with since then.

It seems some of the off brand manufacturers are saving money by using the plastic gear instead of metal and the torque of the metal gears against it are to much and it moves out of place.

Good luck and let us know how you make out. (with the bike, not your love life, that's for another thread.)

 

[Stinky151]

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Actually, I already ended up doing that. The other (new) starter was having the same issue. The biggest issue seems to be that no matter what, I cannot center the starter sprocket/chain in the hole. something is taking tension on the chain and...I think....causing the starter to bind. I have to use a hammer, and a fair amount of force to get the starter in. More than should be needed at least.

 

[Richardrwg]

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Stinky, are you using a new chain gear that came with the new starter? If you are, hold it up against the old one and be sure that the gears are the same size. When I got mine I tried to use the new chain gear and had the same problem, come to find out the new gear was just slightly bigger than the original one. You couldn't tell until you held the gears against each other.

 

[Bagmaster]

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Stinky, here's the layout of the starter gear behind the stator.