Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,032 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
imported post

A new surveillance system designed to track movements of motorcyclists on the roads will be operational by Easter, MCN can reveal.

The technology can tell motorcycles apart from other vehicles, measure their speeds and will be able to read number plates under plans. Data such as the routes taken by individual motorcyclists along with time and date will be collected and kept even if they have committed no offence.

The £100,000 project has prompted civil rights groups to express grave concerns about the potential for invasion of motorcyclists' privacy.

Speed camera bossed behind the scheme have named it the 'motorcycle data project' and the equipment a 'motorcycle detection system'.

It will scrutinise movements of motorcyclists in particular and be switched on to coincide with the start of the riding season in April, they say.

The new surveillance system has been installed on eight routes in Derbyshire by the region's speed camera partnership, including the popular Cat & Fiddle run on the A54 and A537 near Buxton.

Under-road sensors already in place will distinguish motorcycles from other vehicles by their weight and width. Speed will be measured by timing their progress between two sensors a short distance apart. The system has been designed to work alongside Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) and video cameras.

A spokeswoman for the scheme said knowing where riders were from would allow road safety ads to target key areas, for example through local newspapers.
But Isabella Sankey, Director of Policy for the civil rights group Liberty, said: "The road to massive-scale real-time surveillance is paved with good intentions. We understand the safety issues involved but it rings alarm bells that this information may be used for targeted advertising campaigns.
"We have no problem with ANPR being used to locate vehicles whose owners the police firmly suspect of having committed an offence but it shouldn't be used as a tool of mass surveillance."
The Derby and Derbyshire Road Safety Partnership said the aim was to "gather intelligence" to "prevent motorcycle casualties" through measures such as speed warning signs, extra police patrols and safer roadside barriers.

Partnership manager Robert Hill said he hoped to add ANPR cameras in order to work out "how these vehicles are travelling around".

He said there were no plans to use the data for enforcement but admitted it could be used as evidence. "If the police are aware that it's there then they would want to look at it and then obviously there are issues about whether they would want to use it as evidence," he added.

Hill said the eight routes had been chosen to target motorcyclists. "The data will be collected on all vehicles equally on those routes. However in terms of the analysis of that data we're going to pay particular attention to motorcycles," he said.
"That's why they're on those routes. We haven't got a traffic management issue on those routes with any other vehicles that we're aware of.
"Why they've gone there is because we know there's a casualty problem with motorcycles on those routes.

"There will be concerns about data collection but ultimately the data we are collecting on this project is around casualty reduction."

The system has been installed on the:
* A5012 from Cromford to Ivonbrook Quarry
* A621 from Baslow to Owler Bar
* A57 Snake Pass from Glossop outskirts to Nether North Grain
* B5035 from Ashbourne outskirts to Wirksworth
* A515 from Ashbourne to Alsop-en-le-Dale
* A6 Matlock Bath from High Peak Junction to Artist's Corner
* A54 and A537 Cat & Fiddle run from Buxton to Cat & Fiddle pub
* A5004 Long Hill from Buxton to Fernilee

Maps of all eight routes can be found in a 'Bikers' Guide' printed by the council.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
115 Posts
imported post

that is big brother watching you just wonder how long it will be before the speeding tickets start getting sent out
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,032 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
imported post

Will be very interesting to see how this pans out :shock:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,185 Posts
imported post

Well what with this and the newly introduced parking "tax" for London, that will add a few more no go places for me. :(
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,137 Posts
imported post

Lots of folks here whine about red light camera surveillance systems and I often wonder why. The best camera surveillance system I've seen are the ones on law enforcement cars. Seems like lot of cops are busted due to their own videos.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
913 Posts
imported post

Terrible news in my opinion..Does it know if you stop for a pee break...:X
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,524 Posts
imported post

I don't think that will ever work here. At least not in the near future. Your bike population compared to cages is much higher than ours in a ratio, I'm sure. Besides given the current economy, no one in the right mind would spend that kind of money on an experiment.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,185 Posts
imported post

SpiderBob wrote:
I don't think that will ever work here. At least not in the near future. Your bike population compared to cages is much higher than ours in a ratio, I'm sure. Besides given the current economy, no one in the right mind would spend that kind of money on an experiment.
I don't think the government would let a little thing like financial constraints stand in the way of some good old motorist persecution here Spider Bob. Penty of tax £'s available from where they aren't spending on the road infrastructure to fritter away on silly schemes.:X



I would be interested to see statistics as to the ratio of bikes per head here in comparison to over there. :baffled:

Motorcyclists are certainly an easy target for the hand wringers and do gooders in the UK as our voices are not very loud here.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,401 Posts
imported post

The good news is that it probably won'twork to track Goldwings.



Most GW's are at least the size of those small mini-cars y'all drive over there!:cheeky1:
 

·
I am the Hobo
Joined
·
9,690 Posts
imported post

Doesn't matter to you anyway Sean. The bike is registered in Foxy's name and you will be away home back to the States by the time all the NIPs start falling through his letter box. :cheeky1::cheeky1::cheeky1::cheeky1::cheeky1:



(NIP - Notice of Intended Prosecution).





By the way, I don't drive a Mini, I drive a Shitroen
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,344 Posts
imported post

paul's right there sean, leave foxy something to remember you by
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,185 Posts
imported post

:shock::shock::shock::gunhead:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,524 Posts
imported post

Silverfox wrote:
SpiderBob wrote:
I don't think that will ever work here. At least not in the near future. Your bike population compared to cages is much higher than ours in a ratio, I'm sure. Besides given the current economy, no one in the right mind would spend that kind of money on an experiment.

I would be interested to see statistics as to the ratio of bikes per head here in comparison to over there. :baffled:




[align=left][/align]
Found some info for ya. Took a while but here it is Now this is just California




[align=left][/align]



[align=left]i



Population, 2007 estimate California =36,553,215[suP][/suP]
USA = 301,621,157[suP][/suP]


Population, percent change, April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2007
7.9%[suP][/suP]
7.2%[suP][/suP]


Population, 2000
33,871,648[suP][/suP]
281,421,906[suP][/suP]


Persons under 5 years old, percent, 2007
7.3%[suP][/suP]
6.9%[suP][/suP]


Persons under 18 years old, percent, 2007
25.7%[suP][/suP]
24.5%[suP][/suP]


Persons 65 years old and over, percent, 2007
11.0%[suP][/suP]
12.6%[suP][/suP]


Female persons, percent, 2007 s EGISTERED VEHICLE STATISTICS
[/align]




[align=left]Source: Estimated Fee-Paid Vehicle Registration by County For the Period of January 1, 2007 through December 31, 2007[/align]




[align=left]Automobiles
22,086,593 IRP Vehicles[/align]



[align=left]Motorcycles
772,524[/align]



[align=left]CVRA Trucks
499,614 IRP Trucks 64,443[/align]



[align=left]Non-CVRA Trucks
5,485,790 IRP/ID Trucks 1,492,362[/align]



[align=left]PTI Trailers
2,165,067 Total IRP 1,556,805[/align]



[align=left]Trailer Coach/CCH
409,361[/align]



[align=left]Misc. Vehicles *
23,939[/align]



[align=left]Fee-Paid Registered
31,442,888[/align]




[align=left]Exempt Registered
539,793[/align]



[align=left]IRP Vehicles
1,556,805[/align]



[align=left]Total Registered:
33,539,486[/align]




[align=left]* Misc. vehicles include historical vehicles, spec/farm equipment, etc.[/align]




[align=left]AVERAGE FEE PAID BY BASIC VEHICLE TYPE (does not include IRP)[/align]

Source: Statement




 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,185 Posts
imported post

The percentage of vehicles registered to the number of people is huge!!!!!!:shock:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,524 Posts
imported post

Big time, but most have at least two vehicles if not three or more. Otherwise according to the statistics it is damn near one vehicle per every man, women, and child regardless of age. Wow!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
imported post

With all due respect to SpiderBob - we already have our version of this sheit. For starters in my town of Santa Maria - they have installed cameras at light intersections with sensors. If the sensors pick up that a car has entered an intersection on a yellow light and fails to clear the intersection before the light turns red - the "flash" goes off and your plate is captured and you are mailed a ticket. I have one experience with these cameras and their accuracy (with regard to my Indian motorcycle) and it went like this...



I received a notice in the mail that I had violated some traffic law - in far southern California (I live in Central California about 300 miles north of the supposed infraction) - I do "ride south" a couple times a year - but avoid it like the plague because it is a foreign country and one could get killed down there...but I digress...



So on the violation was MY PLATE # and it said that I drove around a barrier to avoid a toll. Hmmmmmm..... That is not something I have ever done - in any state. And while I have been to that town it was about a year before the supposed violation. This caused me to focus on the violation date and track down my own presence. Not only was I "not there" I was not even in the state at the time - but my "violating motorcycle" was - parked in my garage. Since I had returned home to no find break-in long ago - I finally broke down and called. I had to call 6 times to get a human during their business hours. Still I persisted as they had warned that failure to comply would result in non-renewal of my vehicle registration... hmmmmm.... a threat of the "big brother" to control me - so....I complied and persisted to call.



I finally get the traffic biatch on the phone... "Well, it says here that you ran around a barricade and avoided the toll." "Yes, I am fully aware of that -it says that here too." "So, what is your complaint sir?" "I did not do what it says." "You didn't?" "No." "Well, it says here you did." "Yes, I know it says that here too - I did not." "You didn't?" "No ma'am - can I speak to your supervisor please?" "Supervisor____ here how can I help you?" "Do I need to explain this whole thing to you?" "Well sir it apparently says that you violated a traffic barrier to avoid paying a toll- this is against the law and you are being fined for it." "I didn't do it." "You didn't?" "Now we're getting somewhere - no I did not." "Sir, are you aware that we have cameras that catch you in the act?" "You do?" "Yes, we do." "Oh good then you know I did not do it too?" "N0, it says here you did!" "Do we need to go over that again?" "Sir, I have you on film - the picture I have called up right in front of me and we tie into the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) database." "You do?" "Yes we do - so you see there is no point in protesting this we have it all on film." "You do?" "Yes sir we do - we show your late model silver or white Chevy Truck driving around the barrier and a clear picture of the plate." "Well, that sure is interesting - because the plate you have listed 'correctly' as mine on the violation notice is on a black 2002 Indian Chief Motorcycle." "What? Did you say a motorcycle?" "Yes." "Just a minute sir...." [sounds of desparate computer keys clicking away heard in the background and muffled talk] "Sir, you can disregard that notice." "I can?" "Yes, have a nice day..." "Not so fast - you said this call is being recorded - correct?" "Yes sir." "So since you have wasted many of my taxpayer dollars in addition to my own personal time - and I assume there is no way to bill you for my services is that correct?" "Hahaha - yes sir that is correct." "Then why don't you explain to me how this happens - I think you at least owe me that much...." "Well, OK these machines use a complex recognition system that reads the code on your plate - the numbers...." "OK" "Well, it uses Optical Character Reader software - and then searches the DMV files for the match - when it hits the match - it mails out the violation notice." " Huh, sounds like quite the software..." "Well, yes sir - it is -it only has about a 1.6% error rate at the moment and they are working to get that down below 1%." "Really? So you have this problem with 1.6% of your notices now?" "Well, yes - but it really saves the taxpayers so much in patrol costs and maintains revenue by issuing citations...." "And what was the problem in my case?" "Well, it is that last digit of the plate - the OCR read the "B" as an "R" and... and the other guys plate is exactly like yours -except the last digit is "B" not "R"." "How do you know?" "Well, when I zoomed in when you told me you rode a motorcycle - I could see right away that it was clearly a silver or white truck, I can see the Chevy logo on itand I could then read the plate better." "Well, thanks for all the information - it was very enlightening. I must say though - and I'm not mad at you, you're just doing your job - that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You basically violated my liberty and pursuit of happiness as a private citizen - and threatened me with civil violation and action to keep from earning my living (by not renewing my registration) all because some software "thought" I was someone else. I suppose your boss', boss' boss thinks that is little to no cost in order to get his tolls and fines - but it is not fine with me and I'm pissed off about it." "Sir, I apologize and I will take your complaint to our net staff meeting." "OK, now you are going to assure me that it will be taken care of - what does that mean - can I now freely re-register my motorcycle - without fear of additional fines in place at the time due to this error?" "Yes sir, I've already removed the violation." "Good - because here is a little threat of my own - and it is not directed at you - but rather the system you work for - if I see this violation appear anywhere again in my life I will take it personally to each and every office that it is even remotely tied to up through the Governor's office in this state and then I'll figure out what feds I can hassle with it and I will call radio stations and television stations and post on internet boards everywhere - how this [email protected] up situation has violated by rights and liberties and will work tirelessly in that effort until this tollbooth is removed - along with everyone in office that supported it - is that clearly recorded?" "Yes sir." "Have a great day." "Yes - you too sir - and I apologize for the inconvenience." "Thanks."



So you see - it makes perfect sense from an administration standpoint. Fees, fines all automatic, low "error rates" and what not. What does the taxpayer or other citizen or even visitor get? A non-present traffic fine enforcer that can make errors that cost both in time and stress. I see the cameras flash every morning and/or night in traffic either up ahead or behind in my rearview so I know they are "policing" electronically constantly in my hometown now - I wonder how many are in error - anyone work with these "sensors" know?



I hope you Brits can beat this down - once you get it - we'll all have it. Nations of the "free world" it seems are sharing all kinds of great ideas to make us less "free".
 

·
Administrator
02 GL1800 w/Auto Pilot
Joined
·
59,657 Posts
imported post

Just yesterday I was making a left turn. 3 cars in front of me, something/someone in front of a vehicle stalled the flow of our turns.

Camera flashed behind me. I thought "yeah, fine and dandy, another lost day arguing with the law. "officer, can you see that there are 3 of us in that picture? Now, do you see the child that the front vehicle stopped for?"

No?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,524 Posts
imported post

Ya Blackdog, I didn't think of it that way, yes, we have those around a lot down here. Especially around schools, they take your picture if you go 2 mph over the 25 mph speed limit. Major intersections have cameras as well to take traffic light runners. But Crezz was talking about

"A new surveillance system designed to track movements of motorcyclists on the roads will be operational by Easter, MCN can reveal".

This is quite unusual considering our system takes every-ones picture for an infraction. But to signal out just motorcycles. That's like saying we are going towatch all Fords (actually that would be fine with me) to see if we can give them tickets today. But I'm not denying what you are saying as I got a tow booth ticket to for not putting money in and I actually but double in because it wasn't working rightso I just went after the second round of 5.00. It also got dismissed over the phone.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
61,390 Posts
imported post

I thought I read where they already had speed cameras in the UK and this was just an extension of that program........
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top