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Wow... what a couple of days it has been. This was a solo job. I got everything mostlyput together and engine started. I hear a noise from the engine that sounds like a lifter that won't pump up or something like it. The engine runs smooth, does not miss, and idles, just not real crazy about the sounds I am hearing. I checked and double checked the timing belts before putting the covers on. I know it is difficult to imagine the sounds. Is there a way to verify the timing belts now that I am mostly assembled. Like, can I remove a couple of covers and get the engine cranked to T1 and then verify the camshaft position? I guess I would sleep better if I could. The noise almost seems to be coming from the front cover area. Also, the clutch is not bleeding very well. Still do not feel much resistance. Getting plenty of fluid from bleeder.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Kevin.

PS. Went back out and started engine and let idle, Can hear the noise pretty good when I put a long screwdriver aginst the hex bolts in the timing covers and also at the just behind the covers.
 

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Check your exhaust joints again. It is amazing how they can sound like something mechanical when they leak.
 

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Hey Kev, put your bike's year and model in your signature line on your profile so we won't have to look up what you are working on. Yes, you can verify the belt timing easily. Set the crank to T1 and look at your cam pulleys, if the UP letters are upside down, crank the shaft one more turn until they are right side up and the T1 mark is in the window. You should have some little marks on the pulleys on the 9:00 o'clock and the 3:00 o'clock positions adjacent to a mark on the engine case, 9 o'clock on the bike's right head and 3 o'clock on the bike's left head. If the noise goes away as you speed up the engine it could also be carb sync errors. Out of sync carbs can make the primary chain rattle a good bit.

Bleeding the clutch can be a pain, try tying the lever down overnight and see what that does for you.
 

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exavid wrote:
Yes, you can verify the belt timing easily.
If the noise goes away as you speed up the engine it could also be carb sync errors. Out of sync carbs can make the primary chain rattle a good bit.
Bleeding the clutch can be a pain, try tying the lever down overnight and see what that does for you.
Actually, I was hoping I could checkbelt timingwithout disassembling the engine. But if tear-down is the only way thenI will. The noise does not really go away with rpm's , however, I have been hesitant to rev the engine any more than 2,000 rpm's. If I am out of sync, how do I verify? There was an after market speed control, but the operating switch was missing. I removed all the speed control junk and put a screw in the port to the vacuum reservoir.

I will try the clutch bleed trick......Thanks!
 

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Kevin. On that clutch, break the banjo bolt loose at the clutch master cyl. That "high spot" give a great spot for air to remain. You'll be surprised the amount of air that comes out. Also, doing the slight pull, repeatedly, will help get some air out. Watch the reservoir, and you'll see little bubbles escaping. Hard to explain, but we're talking very little lever movement. Tickle the lever, like, 50 times.

Youdidn't getinto the valve covers, did you? Just a stator job? Did it sit a good long while?
 

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Here is an update,

Went out and drained cooling system, removed water pump to pull radiator back to allow access to timing belt covers. I set the crank at T1 and verified pulley alignment, dead on. I put pump back on and refilled cooling system. I started the engine and observed the belts. They are smooth and quiet, but engine noise still present. Sounds like loose rocker arms or a lifter not pumped up. There is not a defined ticking or rattle sound, but more of a clatter. Exavid suggested the primary chain could be rattling. I would tend to agree that is what I am hearing. Of course I am much more aware of any sounds now that I have had the engine out, but I know that what I hear is different from what it sounded like before doing this job. If the primary chain is noisey, what can I do about it and is there any harm? Could I now have a carb syncproblem? I am trying to get prepared for a benefit ride on the 22nd. I hope to get bugs worked out by then.



Thanks for your help everyone!
 

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If it's primary chain rattle syncing the carbs will help.
 

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If it's primary chain rattle syncing the carbs will help.

Is it possible to get out of synch by simply removing and installing carbs? I was careful not to turn them over and I did not have much trouble getting them out or back in. Not questioning the possibility, but the engine ran great, and there were no idle problems. My greatest concern was a rich smelling exhaust and no charging system before disassembly. Now, back together,engine idles smooth, but with this "chain" noise. I can rev it up to about 3,000 rpm's and the sound gets drowned out.

I do not know of any local wing mechanics that I could call on with confidence, even if I do need carb work. :(
 

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Regarding your rich smelling exhaust, how do your spark plug look? Are all of them about the same color? Usually when the carb mixtures are off it's not all of them.
 

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The plugs have about 2000 miles on them and are clean. I do not notice now or in the past any engine miss or drivability concerns.
 

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What I was referring to about the color of the plugs is the color of the insulator around the center electrode. Usually if you've been running rich the color of the ceramic will be black or dark gray. A properly running engine will show a light tan color on the ceramic. Since you have a carburetor for each cylinder the plug color often can indicate which carb might be running rich. It helps to be able to identify which carb is causing a rich running situation, saves a lot of fishing around.
 

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Kev

The easiest way to see if what you are hearing is the primary chain is to start the bike in Nuetral listen for the noise and then pull in the clutch and place it in first gear. If the noise goes away then you are hearing the Pri Chain slapping around. About the only thing that can be done (outside the engine case) isa Carb Synch. This has been a problem on Honda's for a very long time.Many Many things could throw carbs out of synch.

WF
 

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I will make this final note concerning the noise. It was off one cog on each belt. In the order of diagnosis, it is important to start with the most obvious or simple things first. I decided the engine noise was a direct result of something I had done. The only internal part of the engine affected by this repair was the timing belts. I put everything in order and checked the timing marks. Each one was in position. I decided to move the cam pulleys to one cog in advance. I did the right one first and started engine.....no noise! I was really encouraged. I moved theleft over one cogand started it again and the noise was gone. It sounded like a loose rocker arm or a lifter not pumping up. Anyway, with the cams in the next cog over it is smooth and very quiet. I went to work and put everything back together and was able to take a late ride for about 12 miles. It runs better than ever....I think. I am feeling a sense of accomplishment!!!I am excited. The engine ran out just fine from low speed to hwy speeds. What a relief!!! My Wing is fixed!:weightlifter: :banana: :dance:

Thanks! to all who helped me in one way or another, I don't think I would have attempted it withoutyour support.
 

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So that I can better understand what you did - You now have the cam pulleys one cog out of standard alignment marks?..If so, why would one tooth movement on each cam fix what should have been a "by the book" timing of the gear train?..Thanks...
 

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That is correct. I moved the crank mark from T to T1 and it would not make a significant difference in the location of the timing marks on the cam pulleys. Certainly not enough to allow repositioning of the cam pulleys by one cog. After advancing the pulleys over one space on the belts, I cranked the engine with the run switch turned off. I then turned the engine manually with a wrench to T and T1 and the timing mark on the pulleysis just slightly beyond the mark on the case. I would be glad to hear an explanation. All I can say is I have put about 70 miles on it and the engine is smooth and quiet, does not get more than 2 bars on temp gauge, 3 while riding in town at 30 mph. And It starts and turns off easy. I took a few pictures of disassembly and the cooked stator and posted them in the gallery. My 8 yr. old daughter and I rode to a neighboring town, played in the park a while, got a sonic shake and she enjoyed her shake on the ride home. My bike performed flawlessly!
Good time spent together.


Kev. :);):waving:
 

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Thanks for the info, Kev......I'm glad that your bike is working great......I've just read so much on the various boards from folks that say it's got to be "spot on" that I was curious how yours worked obviously so well and yet it is "slightly" out of time according to all published and experienced accounts....I'll keep your info handy when I have to do my 86 SEI...Ride and enjoy....We sure do....
 

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Congratulations, Kev. Your story brought a smile to my face just reading it, as I know just how you feel.

Now enjoy the summer!

Bill~~
 

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Kevin,

I was glad to see your post and that your back up and running. I was about ready to email you to ask you how it went. Quite the ordeal for a new Wing owner!

A quick question for clarification, when you moved the cams one tooth, did you move each one 1 tooth clockwise, counter-clockwise, or in opposite directions?

Great job! I'm sure you feel great about it now that it's all done.:clapper:

John
 

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Hey John,

Thanks for asking. It is one of those jobs that youdread getting started and wonder if you will remember how to put everything back where it is supposed to go, and then after a couple daze go by you think " that really wasn't so bad". As far as the timing belts are concerned, I set the mark on the crankshaft at T1 andverified the cam pulleys to be "in time" I cranked the engine around a couple times and brought it up on T. There was no significant difference. With that in mind, Irepositioned cam pulleys one cog clockwise. I then cranked the engine around a couple times and brought it up again to T1 as the Clymer manual instructs. The mark on the pulleys were just slightly past the mark on the case. If I crank the engine around to T, then the pulleys would line up with the case. But that is not the mark used as a reference in the manual. I have no explaination, other than now my engine noise was gone. I would like to hear the comments of a pro who knows these engines very well. I assume there is no harm in the way it is now, and it may have been that way when I dissassembled. :?

Anyway, she's going like gangbusters now and I am glad to have it done. If you have ever heard an alternator on a car whine when you turn on the headlights, I now hear some faint whine from what I would presume is the stator charging. :weightlifter:
 

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Hi Kevin,

From your explanation, I don't think your belts are on any different than anyone else's. One thing that is common on the various threads about this, is that the marks may not be perfectly on. Maybe the book is just wrong in telling you to line up with T1 but instead should be lined up with T. It obviously works for you.:) Again I'm very glad it's done and working well for you. I know how frustrating it is to get something new like that and not being able to use it.

John
 
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