[busmoss]

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:shock:I searched for quite a while and read as many starting trouble post I could stand. I hope I can run this scenario by you. I just picked this bike up, and tried a few things to get the starter to turn the motor over. It starts to turn the motor over with a surge, but then stops.With the plugs out it turn about 600rpm. I tried all kinds of batteries in full charge. Old starter was bench tested o.k. but still replaced with New (not rebuilt). I am getting miniscule voltage drop through the relay at 12.5v 700cca (-.5 v) even tried jumping the starter directly to battery terminals (thus eliminating the relay all together). I replaced the oil w/ thinner 5w30 in hopes it was too thick or cold. I cleaned grounds, checked cables, bypassed the "dogbone" fuse link etc. Engine turns free and fast when the plugs are removed, in fact it is anytime i have more than 2 plugs in when it stops. Compression too high? (It will blow my hat off looking down at it) Thoughts about hydraulic lock? any ideas? Thank you for your time and great Forum!

 

[DaveO430]

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This has come up before. What happened on another 1100 was one of the cams was 180 degrees out of time so 2 cylinders were on compression stroke at the same time so the starter just couldn't turn it.

 

[busmoss]

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I guess this could be good new... I might have new timing belts! Ill check that.

 

[DaveO430]

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It would be easy to check if you can put a finger over both front or both rear plug holes and push the start button with your nose and see if both cylinders compress at the same time.
A little dry humor there.

Welcome to the forum BTW.

 

[sandiegobrass]

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Welcome!!!! (and Ditto Dave...)

 

[busmoss]

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Thanks fellas. The missing bolt in the timing belt cover was a clue that it had been "adjusted". Both marks on the pullies are in the same up position in regards to the internal timing mark. Now do I tell the guy I got it from that or not..... nah

 

[exavid]

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I've had similar problems with an 1100. That had been left sitting for a couple of years. The cause of the problem was a very thin coating of corrosion on the cylinder walls that increased the drag on the pistons when cranking the engine. These starters are just barely powerful enough when things are correct, a little corrosion in the jug and they just can't cut it. Mine would crank just fine with the plugs out like yours. Getting the engine running a couple times for a few minutes pretty well cleaned cylinder walls and the starting problem cured itself. Compression after running the engine was 170+ psi and all four cylinders within 4psi.

Just to make sure everything is copacetic check the voltage at your starter while cranking the engine with the plugs in. Should be 10V or very close. Also try cranking the engine with the kill switch off, that will provide just a bit more voltage at the starter. I'd also recommend a look at the cam timing. With the engine hand turned to the T1 index , look in the hole on the left rear top of the engine. There's a one and a half inch wide cover that unscrews to see the timing marks. Wit the crank set at T1 the two cam pulleys should have the UP marks right side up and the index marks in line with the case marks at the 9:00 and 3:00 positions. If the UP marks are upside down turn the engine over one more turn leaving the index on the T1 mark.

 

[sandiegobrass]

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busmoss wrote:

Thanks fellas. The missing bolt in the timing belt cover was a clue that it had been "adjusted". Both marks on the pullies are in the same up position in regards to the internal timing mark. Now do I tell the guy I got it from that or not..... nah

I am assuming that you are saying both pulley timing marks are up.. That would mean that when one is on its mark (left or right) the other is not... so Dave was correct?..

Edit: the marks are okay... so timing is correct (see posts below)

 

[busmoss]

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After getting a better look. At T1 position, both cam sprockets are "Up" and timing marks do allighn 3:00 on the shift side and 9:00 on the brake side.. From what I have gathered that is what it should be. Voltage at the starter it 10.3 volts with the plugs out cranking, but much less with the plugs in (like 4 due to the starter stalling). Ignition off gives it more cranking pep, but not enough with the plugs in. Thank all of you for your inputs and time.

 

[busmoss]

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P.S. the only light visable while cranking is neutral light, but I dont know what else to do when I have connected a jumper cable from a car battery straight to the starter.

 

[busmoss]

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Thanks to everyone here! I just fired it up. I'll have to blame it all on the jumpercables I was using... they were not allowing enough amps through. (hince voltage ok and starter ok) I feel like a fool. oh well

 

[exavid]

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Strangley enough I found the same thing with jumper cables. On the 1100 which had similar symptoms I had to parallel two sets of jumper cable to get reliable cranking. Even though the auto battery has greater capacity the resistance of the jumper cables restrict the maximum current flow resulting in low voltage at the starter. That's why it's always important to measure the voltage at the starter terminal when trouble shooting weak cranking issues. If you have around 10V at the starter the engine should turn over okay. If you do and aren't getting the engine to turn over well it's either a starter problem or something making the engine stiffer than normal to turn over. In that case the best attack is to check out and repair or replace the starter so that you know the starter isn't part of the problem. Then one can pay attention to the engine's problems.

Trouble shooting is alway a matter of isolating the different elements of the situation and proving one part of it okay at a time. It's always easy to get bogged down considering too much of the problem at once. It's always best to take it one bite at a time. Checking out voltages at several places seems like too much bother to many but you have to develop a complete picture of the process you're investigating to have a reasonable chance of finding what's wrong. Electrical trouble shooting is different than mechanical trouble shooting, it's more like forensic science. You make tests and eliminate things one at a time until you discover the truth.