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I recently changed the oil (10W-40) and after warming up, draining and refilling with exactly 3.4 quarts, I could not see any oil in the sight glass. Thinking that the oil was just very clear, I rode it for 40 miles and checked again. Still nothing visible except the metal parts behind the glass. So I rode it another 40 miles -- by this time the oil was definitely darker -- and still nothing visible. So I added a quart of oil, watching the sight glass so I wouldn't miss the oil line if it went above. Nada. Nothin'. So I drained the extra quart out.


I'm going to drain it and measure it again, just to be sure, but was wondering if it's possible for the sight glass to get blocked. Or is it just a window into the oil pan?Or maybe just an Old F*rt measuring wrong.


This ever happen to anyone else?
 

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The bike must be on the over night centre stand. All drained and a new filter installed and no oil in the sump crank case and no oil in the filter.

A fill up to the line with the engine turned over by the starter and not running the amount of oil will be just shy of 3 .5 liters or about 3.5 quarts.

What I do is drain all the oil, new filter installed, all bolts and nuts tightened to spec and dump in 3 liters or quarts. Turn engine over a few times to get oil light off, which will fit oil filter. Now carefully dump in 1/2 a quart or liter and you will be ablr to see the window fill up to the line. DO NOT FILL PAST THE LINE.

Now since you are having a bad time of it, drain all the oil and filter. Check the filter and by pass and spring are on correctly, then refill the crank case noting the amount you use to fill it to the line.

You may have been interrupted, gone walkies, or a trip to the outhouse...it all happens to all of us at one time or another, but be real careful and take your time and see what it takes then please post back...I for one am curious.

By the way as William stated the oilglass has a wiper but a dirty inside glass window can be cleaned from crud by using the right oil but changing it out at 300-500 miles. The detergents if given time and removal clean it all.

Happy oil changes!
 

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William_86 wrote:
as far as i know there is a window cleaner thing that you turn with a flat screwdriver. have you used.

you are supposed to check the level with the bike on the center stand not side stand.

you should think about getting a dipstick

http://www.jcwhitney.com/chrome-oil-dipstick-kit/p2005450.jcwx

probably if you are seeing nothing is cuz the oil is way above the level?
Yes, I have used the window scraper, just to see if there were any difference. There wasn't, and I didn't think there would be since I could see the metal behind the sight glass.

Bike was on the center stand.

Actually, I have a dipstick. Oil level went up to the bottom mark -- one of two marks on the stick, so I assume that it was the low acceptable level. Still couldn't see it in the sight glass, even after adding another quart of oil.

Thanks for your suggestions. I'll let you know what happens after I drain and refill tomorrow.
 

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Yes I am interested in how much oil you have in the box. Your site glass is clean if you see the metal back in there. I wonder how your oil screen is doing, is you oil pressure light working as it should?

When you dump the filter and the crank case measure the quantity, normal full is what you said earlier at about 3.5 liters or quarts, but with an extra added quart and still no level in sight is a quandary.

Have you ever looked at that site glass with the motor running...you can visually see the oil flowing.
 

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ARKnapp wrote:
What I do is drain all the oil, new filter installed, all bolts and nuts tightened to spec and dump in 3 liters or quarts. Turn engine over a few times to get oil light off, which will fit oil filter. Now carefully dump in 1/2 a quart or liter and you will be ablr to see the window fill up to the line. DO NOT FILL PAST THE LINE.

Now since you are having a bad time of it, drain all the oil and filter. Check the filter and by pass and spring are on correctly, then refill the crank case noting the amount you use to fill it to the line.
Al,
The bike was thoroughly warmed up, filter removed and replaced with spring and washer in proper place. (I think, will double-check when drained again.) What is the "by pass"?

I will try turning the engiine over a few times, as you mentioned; makes sense to me.

Thanks for the tips. I'll let you know what happens tomorrow.
 

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ARKnapp wrote:
Yes I am interested in how much oil you have in the box. Your site glass is clean if you see the metal back in there. I wonder how your oil screen is doing, is you oil pressure light working as it should?

When you dump the filter and the crank case measure the quantity, normal full is what you said earlier at about 3.5 liters or quarts, but with an extra added quart and still no level in sight is a quandary.

Have you ever looked at that site glass with the motor running...you can visually see the oil flowing.
As far as I know the oil pressure light is working, but I'll check that too. I've never looked at the sight glass with the motor running, but I'll do that. Thanks again for the help.
 

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Pete the bolt you take out or loosen allows you to hold in the oil canister thereby wrapping the oil filter. That bolt is a hollow shafted bolt with a oil by pass shaft and spring within. If the filter is plugged for any reason oil pressure builds up to the maximum relief pressure and that oil pressure is supposed to open that pin within the hollow shaft and allow the oil stopped by the plugged filter to by pass that filter and still lubricate the engine, although with non filtered oil but keep the wheels turning in the engine.

Every oil change the filter should be inspected whether you change it or not, but most of us change oil filters with oil changes.

A similar device the relief valve which usually is integrated with the oil pump does the same thing except instead of by-passing it helps to create pressure. Because a liquid cannot compress the liquid is forced through a restriction and then further restrictions along the way set up a pressurized delivery. That pressure difference causes flow...something like voltage.
 

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ARKnapp wrote:
Because a liquid cannot compress the liquid is forced through a restriction and then further restrictions along the way set up a pressurized delivery. That pressure difference causes flow...something like voltage.
Mr. Knapp, I've read that twenty times and still don't get it.:?

As I understand it a positive displacement pump which our oil pumps and most if not all oil pumps are just output volume/flow. Restrictions like the filter add a tiny bit of pressure and when it comes to the end of it's travel, the bearing journals and their clearances add the majority of the pressure to the system.
That's why as your bearings wear your oil pressure decreases but the flow always remains the same if the oil pump is not worn.
 

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The positive displacement pump whether gear, vane, piston does deliver a positive amount of liquid. But the displacement of and by itself has little pressure, working pressure until that liquid comes against a flow restriction as you have said, the journals, the bearings and the filter. Something like a garden hose full on without a nozzle attached. The pressure of the water system is the towers holding the water and the pipes restricting flow. Put your thumb against the hose and a greater pressure is exerted.

The working pressure in a closed system is because the system is closed, open that system and because of Pascal's rules ( pressure exerted in ALL direction equally) the open part reduces the pressure.

The system still needs a pump to keep a flow, if that pump was wide open on the discharge like a fire hose only so much pressure and volume but restrict the hose by a adding a turn down valve then the pressure can become greater.

As in carbs with venturi effect. Restriction creates pressure. The same in our bodies with blood flow, the heart pumps a certain amount of flow of blood but the arteries and smaller vessels capillaries create a restriction and increase the pressure.

Pumps by design need a restriction, in pressure applications there are relief valves to regulate the highest pressure. The pump itself is not the pressure source but the pump along with the conduits, journals, restrictions creates a pressure.

If you take any hydraulic pump and block its output but keep its input fed with oil, the action of that pump at full on with zero flow will burst that pump, but its action at full open and full on will have full flow with little pressure until you enter more and more restriction to flow.
 

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Warmed up the bike and drained the oil from the bike and filter this morning. Let it drain for about 30 minutes or so. Put the filter back on (it was correctly assembled) and measured the oil as I refilled. Somehow, it was about 1/2 quart low.

So I added that, after jogging the engine about 4-5 times with kill switch off as ARK suggested.

Lo, behold, and tidings of great joy! Oil doth appear in yon window! It later disappeared again, but I know that there is 3.4 quarts of oil in it, and since it's not leaking or burning oil, I'm not going to worry about it. So many thanks to all who advised me.

Haven't ridden it yet to see if I notice anything different. And I may not be able to ride it for a while. On the way back from the warm-up, the turn signals quit working. If I can't find the problem, I'll start another thread.
 

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Pete, sounds good, happy to see you've resolved the mystery.
When you first start the engine with a full oil filter and a full crank case, that pump on the inlet side has a vacuum compared to the output. The gearrotor or gear pump itself takes a bit of oil to surround the gears as they move and will make the oil level appear to lower.

But when all is right and operating, you should see oil flow in the window, the level will appear lower than when off because now oil is flowing within the whole chamber that is the motor, oil filter and nooks and crannies.
 
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