PO removed the baffles- What options are there?

4985 Views 46 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Lil Pete, Jul 7, 2009

oldtoys1961

Discussion Starter · Jun 23, 2009

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OK, I pulled off the turndowns and noticed after the mufflers it seemed short. Looks like he cut the small baffle end off leaving about 2-3 inches to clamp on JCW turndowns. He cut the whole d#mn end off with the baffles in it. I always thought it had alot more growl than it should for a wing.I heard a friends 1200 85' and you couldn't hardly hear it run.

I like quite. Since he put on the JCW turnouts(mufflers) I fabbed up an adjustable butterfly valve up inside the to get back to adding some back pressure and lower the db's. I can tell theres some sound diff at high speed now.

I want this thing to be so quite you can tell its running hardly. Is it possibly with this year? JR

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Hatchetman

· #2 · Jun 23, 2009

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Yes it is possible! Now it's decision time for you. You can look for a used set of pipes in the for sale section & swap them for yours or you can get a set of mufflers from almost any touring bike & modify them to fit your wing. I doubt you can repair yours. Best bet is another set of wing mufflers off a wreck or a wing with a blown motor!

oldtoys1961

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 23, 2009

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I might be able to salvage them after thinking about it at work all night. I removed the baffle from another muffler(MAC) about 12" long and 1 1/8" round. Since the po left about 3" of pipe to clamp the turnouts to, I might be able to weld up a small set of those JCW 4" baffles to the inside of that remaining 3" then slip the turnouts back on and clamp them down. If I can get more baffle in there, I'll cut that 12" baffle in half and add 6" more by welding onto the JCW 4". Catch my drift?

My exhaust chrome is great, the crazy po just cut the small pipe off the end except the 3". Which had the baffles in them. He wanted that loud deep sound I guess. These exhaust in good chrome condition can cost a couple hundred bucks upto almost $600 new/aftermarket. I'd never do that to stock pipes.

FM

· #4 · Jun 23, 2009

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My 1500 was beginning to growl, assuming the baffles are rotting out so this is my (temp and CHEAP) fix.

Near the exhaust end I drilled to fit a 5/16 eyebolt which holds a squashball sized chunk of 000-steelwool. I first done this to cheap aftermarket chrome tips to be sure it'll work before drilling the OEM pipes.

This wool you can add more/less and it's easily removable/replaceable & cool part is you can adjust the tone. :coollep:

0000-wool looks to be too tight a weave and might create high back pressure unless you use a thin piece.
Just experiment to taste. :waving:

So far mama likes "000", not to loud but has a soft growl and back pressure seems about right. After couple thousand miles, pipes are still chrome (not blued).

OnaWingAndaPrayer

· #5 · Jun 23, 2009

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I have the Harley Road King mufflers and quite happy with them on my 1100 . Nope not as quiet as stock but surely not loud .

I dont have a stock set to look at but from what your saying I have a thought .... The OLD Volkswagen beetle had those chrome extensions about 8 - 10 inches long and about 1.5 inch OD going from memory . Perhaps thats another avenue to look at .

oldtoys1961

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 23, 2009

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Problem SOLVED I hope. After going through about 20 pages in the search. I tried the simple copper scouring pads as mentioned in a post. I had added butterfly valves with 1/4" open around the washer. I can turn it horizontal for full close or open it alittle more each time for testing. Popped in a copper scouring pad in the front of the slip on before the exhaust enters and 1 behind the butterfly(so it wont blow out.

Its so quite now. I love it. Thats what I think a Goldwing is all about.I tested it and seen no rise in TEMP. Excellent throttle response as before the mod. Gonna go for a ride right now and check it out some more.

Wouldn't have thought of the scouring copper pads if it wasn't for this forum. THey cost a $1 from Family Dollar for a pair. SO simple even a caveman like me could do it.:cheeky1:.

This is one of the best cycle forum sites I've ever been a member on. Thanks guys....

Mr Magic Fingers

· #7 · Jun 24, 2009

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Oldtoys1961,

Please please please…. tell me you took some pictures! I am VERY interested in what you did and would love to see them. I am looking to quiet down my set of HD Road King mufflers.

I must have missed the post about copper pads.

Please contact me if you have the time.

Tim.

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oldtoys1961

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 24, 2009

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Just got back from a 25 mile quick trip down the Trace. Worked perfectly. No negatives that I see as yet.No engine running any warmer than normal,I could hear the tunes much better at 55 and even went to 65-70 on the highway and still got good sounds.

The butterfly controls most of the back pressure which is totally adjustable, the copper pads appear to break down the db's. Very similar to that of a silencer.

Mr Magic Fingers I'll try to get some pics for you.Really simple. I'm experimenting so I'll pull the butterfly take some pics and add another pad and and lock the butterfly back only open it a littlemore. JR

Mr Magic Fingers

· #9 · Jun 24, 2009

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Thanks!

Take pictures of everything... butterfly included. Everything you take pictures of helps stimulate ideas for the rest of us.

Thanks again!

Tim.

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McFirefighter

· #10 · Jun 24, 2009

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Guys I have a question about the baffels, if a person takes out the baffels to get a louder tone does it hurt the power or gas mileage in any way. I have always been told that the bikes as to have back presure in order to run right is this right? I do not know anything about this. Can anyone tell me about this. thanks MCFF :?:?:?

Marcus

· #11 · Jun 24, 2009

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mcfirefighter wrote:

Guys I have a question about the baffels, if a person takes out the baffels to get a louder tone does it hurt the power or gas mileage in any way. I have always been told that the bikes as to have back presure in order to run right is this right? I do not know anything about this. Can anyone tell me about this. thanks MCFF :?:?:?

That is a loaded question because it is a common misconception that backpressure is necessary. That is not true. However, the exhaust has to work with the rest of the engine setup. For example; If the intake is restrictive, it probably won't increase power very much if only the exhaust is opened up.

An engine works off of gas pressure inside the engine. Like an air pump, the more air that can be moved in and out of the engine the more horsepower that it will generate. That is true at all rpms. I hope this doesn't start a big argument because lots of people think backpressure is a good thing because they saw an engine that wouldn't run after the exhaust was opened up. When this happens it is because something else is wrong. The first place to start is jetting the carbs. Any time the intake/exhaust flow is changed the jetting has to be changed so that the air/fuel mixure is correct.

One thing that people sometimes notice is a decrease in fuel mileage after opening up the air flow. That is because the carb has to be jetted up to compensate. Under normal driving conditions, that can cause increased fuel consumption. Of course that doesn't matter if all you are looking for is more power.

Anyway, forgive my rant. I am not trying to hijack the thread. My only point was to answer the question and point out that if you change the exhaust backpressure you should also check the jetting to make sure you are not running lean or rich.

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McFirefighter

· #12 · Jun 24, 2009

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Well after giving this some thought, and talking to my son that is a mach. when a motor is built for racing, drag, circle track, ect. they use headers to open up the exhaust. So I guess it might give you more power, but in turn prob. kill the gas milage. :?:?:?MCFF

FM

· #13 · Jun 24, 2009

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MARCUS, your right-on.

This is in reference to pulling out baffles with a little more explanation.I know it's slightly wordy but it all comes together in understanding "exhaust".

Exhaust pipe is necessary for two basic reasons...

1.) Noise control. (self explanatory)

2.) Proper air out-flow.

___ If the pipe is removed at certain RPM's partial ambient air will actually flow back past the exhaust valve... not much but enough to cause problems. After the explosion there'svacuum in the cylinder. IF you could somehow keep this non-back pulse timing perfect, no pipe is needed. JUST COVER YOUR EARS! WHAT!!!.I SAID,.... never mind.

___ Air has weight, not much but enough to be used as a pulling devise. Having a pipe will cause the air to flow in one direction JUST a little longer than usual. This momentary air pull creates vacuum at the valve. When the valve opens again this (slight) vacuum helps pull the exhaust out of the cylinder.

When the vacuum is not there, andat certain RPM's, the crossover pipe creates the "off timed power pulse" vacuum.There is much more, you can find TONS of bookson this subject.

Now about the baffles.

Baffles are there to both create back pressure and maintain constant air flow.

___ Back pressure helps innoise control.A pulseof air hits any non-movable object, some noise gets canceled... hence multi-baffles. BUT too much & the engine will get warmer & you will get poorerMPG's. The motor has to work harder to push out the exhaust, in essence, the motor becomes an airpump.

___ Constant air flow helps maintain a steadyrate of air movement throughout the RPM range. Some aftermarket pipes will have a flat spotsat different midrange RPM's. They're sacrificingmid-land power to obtain more low-band and/or high-band power. And the crossover is an added bonus to this design. It helps to retrieve that lostmid-band power.

Again this is just basics, there are many-many variables.

Old school, low-tech was to watch for pipe bluing. The less meant better air flow and/or proper air-fuel mixture.

Copper or steel wool is the low-tech version of DIY repairs. It works "IF" you have some knowledge or intuition of air movement.

HOPE this helps.

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oldtoys1961

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jun 24, 2009

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Ok, heres what the PO did. There was a set of 19" JCW slipon mufflers on there with some kinda gunk as a sealer.

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oldtoys1961

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jun 24, 2009

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I made a butterfly valve out of a eyelet and a washer. I know my welding sucks,but I just wanted it tacked on good with a port arch welder. Thats a 1" washer. SO I have 1/4" all the way around even if I turn the valve completely closed.

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FM

· #16 · Jun 24, 2009

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At least he left you with something to attach something else too.

That gunk helps in maintaining airflow... it's useable.

What'syour plans now that you have some knowledge from us (amatures)?

#2 pix, fine looking puddles. Washer going to be chromed?

OH!!!! IF your washer holds too much back pressure, you can either drill out the center or file/grind notches around the edge. I was going to do the same as you but my steelwool works really great. (Red Green) "If it ain't broke, why fix it"

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oldtoys1961

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jun 24, 2009

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This is the end of the JCW slipon where the exhaust enters. I placed 1 copper pad in this end.

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FM

· #18 · Jun 24, 2009

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oldtoys1961 wrote:

This is the end of the JCW slipon where the exhaust enters. I placed 1 copper pad in this end.

Now THAT looks like something from Star Trek.

(Scotty) EY, captian. But I don't think we have enough power to blow through that meshy thing. I'll give her all she's got.

oldtoys1961

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jun 24, 2009

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This is the exit end of the turnout. I drilled a 1/4" hole to mount the butterfly in. Its about right where the pipe starts to straighten and I can reach my fingers in there to angle it in.I place 2 copper pads in this end. I kept them loose and not roll them up in a ball, I didnt want to do the potato in the exhaust pipe trick to myself. Slip in the valve and then screw the nut on.

Its up in there far enough not to be seen. You can also take out a pad or cut it inhalf. Try different angles more on the valve.

I first did 1 in the exhaust entry the 1 on the exit end. I decided to try the 1 up front and 2 in the rear and open the valve more. Its a a matter of trial and error. My bike still runs fine, not over heating,popping, its much quieter but I'll play more with it. JR

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Mr Magic Fingers

· #20 · Jun 24, 2009

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Hi Oldtoys1961,

Thanks for the great pictures.

What condition was the "copper wool" in after your run. Any sign of it wanting to"burn"up?

Tim.

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